posted November 04, 1999 12:38 PM         

So I wonder...aside from LoneStar/Petunia, DuncanMac/Suse, and presumably StevieB/Heather, since they are no longer here, how many of you feel that your following the Harley methods has been successful?

As for me? Well, I've been in permanent, nondisclosure Plan A since March, and yes, things are better. I still feel vulnerable, still "hook into" H's moods more than I should. But it's better. OTOH, my H wasn't involved in a full-blown affair, I don't think; just an "inappropriate friendship" that may or not have become sexual on perhaps one or so occasions.

posted November 04, 1999 12:47 PM         

I haven't posted for a while because I will NOT be one of those success stories. I feel that my attitude has been a bit on the negative side and don't want that to bleed into all the positive energy here on the forum.

Although I really gave Harley's methods a sincere and concerted effort, they fell short of the mark in my case. My wife seems to be completely immune to all methods. At first, I thought her affair was textbook because I could see the progression as described (almost to a "T") in the many books I've read. However, as the divorce train keeps on rollin' (initiated by my wife) I get the feeling that this has always been an "exit" affair. In 5 months, she has NEVER expressed any willingness to return to me. She still lives with the OM as far as I know. I expect to be divorced by years end. (Happy new year to me...yeah right).

posted November 04, 1999 01:01 PM         

I also wonder about long term successes. Do people still have great marriages 10 or 15 years later after applying the Harley principles? Are they still doing the Harley principles?

I don't know if I'll ever recover fully from what's happened to me. My wife can fulfill my emotional needs til she's blue in the face... Will it ever make a dent in me? I still maintain that you just can't fall in love with any ole person that fulfills your emotional needs. There are some intangibles involved.

posted November 04, 1999 01:14 PM         

My H and I finally know how we need to treat each other, but after 14 years of bad habits and the devestating pain of an extended affair by my H, I'm not sure Harley's methods are enough to save the marriage. For one thing, it is much harder to follow Harley's methods when the relationship is strained.

No amount of good treatment can take away the memory of the bad. The scars are there no matter what.

Each case is different and each person's level and ability to love is different. It takes such a tremendous amount of love in order to deal with the pain an affair causes and the love has to be on both sides of the relationship.

I think Harley's principles are perfect, but unfortunately they must be applied to humans who are far from perfect.

posted November 04, 1999 01:34 PM         

After three weeks of him staying at a pastor friends house and visiting us/babysitting so I could keep going to my classes, I sent him an email:

"Do not remember the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing, now it shall spring forth; shall you not know it? I will even make a road in the wilderness and rivers in the desert." Isaiah 43:18, 19."

He responded by asking me out to dinner that night and saying that he couldn't understand how I could forgive him, but that he was sorry for betraying my trust in him.

It has been a struggle each day to keep from lovebusting. Some days I burst into tears while we are making love. I know that must discourage him a good deal.
But things are 1,000 times better than they were two months ago, and seem to keep moving in the right direction. I know that some situations are more complex than this, some less.

In our situation, with a really strong support system from both our families, and a great church, we will probably make it.

At least I hope so.

------------------
When you go through deep waters and great trouble, I will be with you. Isaiah 43:2

posted November 04, 1999 01:37 PM         

Since H was walking away from affair, had not even considered leaving marriage and was horrified by his own behavior, we pretty much only had to recover and rebuild, or there was that continued phone contact weirdness that muddied things up.

Anyway, of course it goes without saying, being nice, trying to meet your spouses needs as he or she sees them and not being mean, is good for a marriage.

I have kind of been on plan A with everyone my whole life, so it was no leap for me.

The Policy of Joint Agreement is nice in theory and probibly works when you and your spouse both want completely entwined life. If my H and I spent the energy it would take to modify every action we took so the other was jumping up and down with glee, we'd never take any action. I think both my H and I agree that we fully support one another in our individual pursuits and our commen interests. With a small family, careers and a hectic life, we simply can not be joined at the hip. Much of our life is about division of labor and just getting through the day. Personally I need my H to be as committed to the marriage as I am (he is) and be as cooperative as possible in growing and learning to improve our communications and our understanding of each other.

I have probibly learned more from other books I have read, because I think whatever problems we had/have are more communication or misintretation rather than commitment.

I know my situation is different than most.

posted November 04, 1999 02:00 PM         

They were very effective in my case. But they took lots of time to get to that level of effectiveness, and I have plenty of emotional scars left over (but I heal fast).

I think that these principles work tremendously well in a good marriage. BOTL suggests HN/HN as a prerequisite for marriage (gotta love that "Physical Attraction" section... ). I would suggest his newer "Four Gifts of Love", which covers all aspects of his philosophy (Needs, Lovebusters, Time, Honesty).

D&C: I was reading some more of Susan Page's book, and I see remarkable similarities to it, Harley's stuff, and Michele Weiner-Davis's stuff. Very similar threads run throughout.

airheart---you will get over this eventually. Just because you can't see it now doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. There's really no such thing as an "intangable" that matters---if it's "intangable", you're not going to notice it. The real issue with you will be that you may need to deconstruct the affair to find those subtle things that the OW did to "make a difference", and then get your wife on board with the program. But I still just think that you're suffering from withdrawal. Give it a full year, and you'll see steady improvement.

posted November 04, 1999 02:16 PM         

1. If both spouses are committed to making things work, many different approaches will work (Harley and others).

2. If the betrayer accepts responsibility and has remorse, most betrayeds will work through this with them. Many approaches that focus on open communication, respect, and meeting needs will work.

3. If the betraying spouse has no remorse, blames the betrayed for everything, and won't end the affair, very little will work. In this circumstance, the only way out is for the betrayer to emerge from the fantasy and start accepting some responsibility. This is totally betrayer dependent. The Harley method gives the betrayed three important things: 1) a plan, 2) the tools to avoid making the situation worse, and 3) advice on how to wait the maximum amount of time for the betrayer to emerge. These are important things, but I don't think they save the marriage. The betrayers have to do that. But the waiting provides the betrayer the time to reach description 2 above, and then it can be effective.

My opinion is that Harley's writings on Love Busters and Emotional Needs are really excellent. The problem is, those of us stuck in the waiting game never get to use them to the full extent. I can see how my non-lovebusting has kept me in the game, but I don't see any payback from my efforts to meet emotional needs.

posted November 04, 1999 02:22 PM         

I believe that if you don't have two committed people, you have to let it go.

posted November 04, 1999 03:16 PM         

I can't say it's Harley's methods alone that have gotten me to where I am. Sure his material helped a lot. But, I was 4 months in to my personal hell before I found one of his books. This forum helped more than I ever expected it to. I also have a very large collection of non-Harley books that have helped. Probably the most effective tool for me was prayer.

I have been in what is labeled Plan A since Feb. Some things worked, some didn't. Summary for me:

Year Ago
--------
Wife said she did not love me any more and wanted out. She no longer found me physically attractive. Said she would never be intimate with me again. We talked for maybe 1-2 minutes a day. No longer hugged, kissed, or anything else. I was still oblivious to anything being wrong (pretty sad) until she let it all out. She decided to stay for the kids only.

Now
--------
Wife does say she loves me; not as often as I want to hear but it's a start. We talk for 1-2 hours a day and never run out of things to say. We date regularly. We hug. We kiss. We touch a whole bunch. And we . We are friends again and we are slowing returning to intimacy in our marriage. She calls to tell where she is if she is late or if there is a change in plans. We touch a whole bunch. I used to rely on her emotional state for my own emotions. If i could ever get her on here, I'm sure she would say the changes in me are night and day over the way I was a year ago. I cherish her and no longer have any regrets for things I should have done.

The scars from this ordeal are still there. But like scars on our body, I think they will serve as a reminder to an horrible time. I don't live in fear of her leaving me anymore. If she decided to go, I couldn't stop her. It would hurt but I know that I could live life without her (it's just better with her). She also knows that I could not go through this again. Her bond to the OM is fading as the days pass.

I'm happier than I've been in a long time. I believe she is too.

posted November 04, 1999 05:35 PM         

by the way, Harley's book was the first I read followed by several more. This site saved me the immediate weeks following discovery and helped me deal with the pain. Susan Page and Peggy Vaughan have good ones too. There is something useful in all of them.

posted November 04, 1999 06:05 PM         

Is my marriage restored?
Not even close!

Succesful in that I am "Surviving An Affair."
Not succesful (so far) in restoring the marriage.

I will not live in fear forever. Remember it definitely.

posted November 04, 1999 06:09 PM         

We are still working real hard to resolve all of the messes that occured during our lives. I met with the pastor the other night and he confirmed that if you skip over all the work it is bound to happen again. Well let me tell you it is alot of work! Not just the affair but things we have lived through our entire lives and taught us to be the way we are.

I don't feel Harley's methods in themselves are a roadmap for success, however it does steer you down the right path. I know WE will benefit fron this information as will the rest of you.