posted December 10, 1999 12:21 PM            

She has been on anti-anxiety medication throughout our marriage, and has only recently gained control of psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis which were debilitating, but which she persevered through. I handle most of the household chores. Now, because I am starting another business (a few ventures never got beyond the exploratory stages but now I and a partner have a dotcom I expect to be HUGE, and which requires no restraint in pursuing it), and because a relocation that was in the talking stages isn't happening immediately (for tax reasons--need to stay 2 years in this home to get big $ benefit), she believes she cannot be married to me. Logic and demonstrable economic progress cut no ice: she sees a future in which she works outside the home and I take care of the child (should there be one) inside the home, then our marriage breaks up and I fight for custody and alimony. I view this as wacky beyond belief, but I can't say so in so many words.

To top it off, her unemployed brother-in-law was living with us since February (contributing infrequently and little to the household expenditures and using my car [marring it on a couple of occasions without recompense]) and she hates her job (with some justification). Our marriage has been largely sexless the last few months. She feels my opportunities have stultified her opportunities (even though we moved to where we live now so that she could take this job 6 years ago). Now that her brother in law has just moved out (having successfully mastered day trading), she is demanding separate bedrooms. Meanwhile, as business goes better, I get no credit, even as her firm pays her less. She also feels that I don't fit in culturally with her family (latin), and have little regard for family myself. The truth is, as an anglo, my extended family is smaller than hers, I am not that close to my parents, and she has caused some further distance because she feels they haven't given me enough guidance (meanwhile hers probe her incessantly). She feels like I mistreat others (for instance--not rolling down the window for beggars), and that she and hers can expect the same. Meanwhile, important things I *have* done for her family have gone unappreciated, a fact she will readily acknowledge.

I have never ignored the little things with respect to her, and I have fought for her and alongside her, and I will fight to the last to keep her. I am, however, concerned that there may be more wrong than just me ... her negative thinking is carried out to the nth degree, and it always ends up with her concluding I am irresponsible, despite all I do. Is this normal, or should I go about seeking more help on the psychiatric front? Thankfully, she has agreed to change everything else she can in her life first, and me last, but she still feels our marriage has no future.

posted December 10, 1999 04:11 PM            

Tradizone is not normally thought of as an anti-anxiety medication. It is a tricylic anti-depressant with some pretty significant side-effects...and you say it was prescribed by her father? Is he a psychiatrist? How long has she been on it?

There are far more anti-anxiety medications available on the market today than ever before. Many with anxiety disorders do incredibly well on SSRI's at high doses...and they have far fewer side effects than does Trazidone. There are also the lesser tranquilizers, like clonazepam, that help calm the anxious brain.

So why Trazidone? I ask because I was on it short-term before being dxed properly by a psychiatric specialist, who immediately took me off of it and increased the particular SSRI I am on. (But I'm not suggesting in any way, shape or form that this is the right course of action for your wife. I just wonder if it isn't time for her mental health to be re-evaluated by someone other than her father.)

I'm not trying to be flip here--because these issues are so very significant--but I would definitely suggest your wife seek further psychiatric consultation.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

posted December 12, 1999 07:03 PM            

Her self-talk is so strong she can have me believing it until I search for the counterexamples and probe the fallacies. I know I'm not perfect, but I also know that something's not right when bad things from the past that have diminished leading up to the present are projected as destructive juggernauts in our future. At times it seems she has the power to make her prophesies self-fulfilling, just by beating me down as external things improve.

I can't tell you how painful all of this has been to me, or what it's cost me in terms of productivity and peace of mind. But I want to save this marriage, and I don't believe there is anything fundamentally wrong with how we love each other.

posted December 13, 1999 08:26 AM            

What is it that makes your wife hold her father's opinion in such high regard when it comes to psychiatric matters? My goodness, to trust one's psychiatric health to a non-medic seems bizarre and dangerous to me, having been down this road forever myself.

And her arguments that the particular medication, Trazidone, is a good medication for her because she is able to function well at work is so flawed it is not funny. Medicating one's psychiatric difficulties is just THE FIRST STEP to finding long-term happiness and peace of mind. It merely sets straight the inbalance in the brain chemistry. I suspect there is a lot more going on here than brain chemistry. I suspect there is a lot of psychology at play as well. If medicating a chemical imbalance in the brain were all it took, all people with psychiatric disorders who were medicated would be well. That is far from the truth, my friend. Pharmacological interventions are merely the first step to wellness.

I'm afraid she has much work ahead of her. Happiness, contentment, peace of mind come from within and cannot be bought, sold or induced by external factors, such as a husband, or for that matter a psychotropical drug.

Are you aware of her expectations of you, as a husband, a friend, a lover? Have you read through Harley's material on this homepage? There is some quite valuable advice there--most of it behavioural and with any luck, some or most of it will benefit your marriage.

If she will not consider having herself evaluated, then I'm afraid my friend, the work may fall to you. Consider undetaking the needs test that Harely provides---it is a marriage test of sorts, clearly defining what both partners want/need in a marriage.

It is a good start. I hope she agrees to it because it does provide a launch pad for deeper meaningful discussions which often help uncover some unrecognized behaviours (on both your parts) which may be contributing to her blurred thinking or for that matter "Lovebusting".

No, my friend, you are not perfect. None of us is but I'm afraid her unhappiness or confusion stems more from herself than in being married to you.

Good luck and God bless. It sounds as though you love her very much. I hope she understands that.

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Take good care, Francis

posted December 17, 1999 09:45 AM            

I wish I'd been able to get her off the Desyrel (brand name for the trazodone) years ago when she first started on it, but the fear and paranoia created by withdrawal are spectacularly hard to take.

What's going to happen here is that she will leave me, secure in the knowledge that she is the one who has put all the effort into the marriage and I have done nothing to help the situation, or provide her with security, etc. I don't know how I should or will handle that, but I am preparing myself for it.

Last night she came home sick from shopping with the brother in law. I made sure she had heating pad, water, remote, NyQuil, vaporizer, stayed and talked to her, but when she said something nasty, *I* left the bedroom. This morning I came to her and got her tea before I showered, etc., and later she said that when I'm nice to her it's as though I expect that will make everything all right and it mocks her (this being a reference to an incident dating back to her birthday in April when we fought, and I reached my limit just as I was about to leave the car and get her a birthday cake ... instead I backed out and drove home in silence. The symbolism of a birthday cake is powerful to her, and even as she's giving me hell on my birthday she will assure that I get mine [which to me is almost mocking, and I have said so]. She was deeply offended that I didn't get her the cake [the brother-in-law did go and do it]).

posted December 20, 1999 09:45 AM            

I'm glad to see you are not throwing in the towel here--that speaks a lot to your character and your commitment to your marriage. Congratulations! A lesser person would have walked away by now.

The issues in your marriage, my friend, are so complex. I wish I had some words of wisdom for you, but unfortunately I don't. Your wife seems unwilling to try to make this marriage work. And I can *sense* your pain and frustration. For that I am so sorry.

The one thing I have learned on this forum is that as difficult a job as it may be, it is possible for one person to save a marriage even where the other is not willing to work at it.

My best suggestion would be to call Harley (he does phone counselling) and given his years of experience and the numerous marriages he has saved, perhaps he can help you.

I'd also warn you against seeking a therapist not so well versed in behavioural changes/therapy. Many therapists can do a lot of damage (I've learned this the hard way )

I'm not sure that you ever mentioned whether or not you two have children and while I would never advocate saving a marriage for the children's sake only, I did find my two kids powerful motivators to learn new healthy patterns in my marriage that will likely be responsible for saving my marriage.

Keep us posted...If you decide to go to Dr. Harley, you may find you continue to need the emotional support of those of us who have been/are walking this devastating road with you.

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Take good care, Francis

posted December 20, 1999 10:25 AM            

She has agreed to see a therapist, and I'm even back in the bedroom. She had a weekend's worth of work, which she did well at because I was very accomodating and didn't do anything to tempt her away (she said if I had done so, she would have been out of there like a shot). She has even strategized a way not to get an end-of-year screwing from her boss (he would dearly love to roll the completion dates for some projects over to Y2K, but because they're in tandem with another employee's work that will get billed this year, she has a powerful argument to avoid it). All this makes her happy.

Meanwhile, some issues from October when all this went sour in her mind came up and I was able to revisit them with her and put some nuances on them (basically, the question was why I hadn't promoted my business more and expanded its services, and my twofold answer was worries about the regulatory environment and/or degredation in service to the customer). She is of the opinion that I should take my book of business and skills, etc. and go work at a law firm. She thinks I could make more money and be closer to practicing my profession (what I do now is in a twilight realm of the law). I say better to rule in hell than serve in heaven (and 90% of law firms are far from heaven). I also think few law firms would be interested, and the few that would be are already doing something like what I'm doing and don't need me. I'm fortunate in that in the course of doing what I do I found someone who can do the technical side of this new thing I want to do, and he's enthusiastic and we're running with it. This kind of synergy is what I had in mind for my business right along.

The dotcom I'm working on isn't law-related either (the closest thing is www.sixdegrees.com, but this thing should blow sixdegrees away, seriously), but that is much more important to her than it is to me.

posted December 23, 1999 03:15 PM            

I have given your situation a lot of thought...printed out all prior discussion with the hopes of trying to tease a few things apart for you.

Here's what I come up with:

1). Your wife's psychiatric condition needs to be re-evaluated by an astute therapist (if she is unwilling to be properly dxed by a psychiatrist). Most of what she says is quite convoluted and IMHO makes little sense. This is born out over and over again by what you write in your postings. It also signals some brain chemistry problems that do require re-evaluation and correction. (The rest of what I'm about to post might in fact be mute if my guess is correct and she infact does need substantive psychiatric help.)

2). She has issues concerning money and your abilities to provide for her and your future. These issues have been addressed it would seem. In your very first post, you wrote: " During some periods, she has carried the financial load but now there is parity." Perhaps you need to sit down with her and revisit this. Perhaps she needs *experiential evidence* that you will provide for your future (and her's) come hell or high water. Perhaps you need to write down your financial plans and show them to her.

3.)She hates her job. Sounds like a very angry/confused/unhappy person here--she sounds an awful lot like me before I received the psychiatric help I needed. I was not so angry as much as confused--my life felt "wrong"--though I could not put my finger on any one thing, everything about my life seemed wrong. Getting the proper help--and as I have mentioned, the right meds were just the beginning--helped me focus on where my problems lay. And they helped me get a grip on what needed to be done to improve MYSELF and MY life. I didn't look to my husband for such things. Initially I did, and then to complicate matters, I had an affair..and finally I learned that I needed to take charge of my life from the inside out. (Again, this has been a two year process since first being dxed).

4.)Cultural differences: I am Italian from a close Italian RC family. My H is a WASP--not close at all. Big cultural differences...yet we have put distance (miles and emotional) between our separate families. It works well for us. We have forged our own family life irrespective of either families. We took from both cultures what we liked and trashed the rest. Her use of cultural differences as a means to berate you is just plain ignorant and to me, sounds like an excuse to explain why she is unhappy.

As I said earlier, I believe most of the above is really contained in my first point. Her reactions, justifications and explanations for the most part make no sense. And they make no sense for one of two reasons: Either you are leaving out some huge chunk of your story or she is truly mentally disturbed. I know the havoc an unbalanced brain can wreak on a person/marriage. And to her her explanations may in fact make perfect sense..that she comes close to having you believe then is another testament to whatever ails her. *We* can be so convincing because *we* live inside our heads to such an extent that we have answers for everything that may challenge our thought processes.

I hope for your sake that the therapist she has agreed to see is well-versed in psychiatric matters.

I'd say it's your greatest chance at saving this marriage.

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Take good care, Francis

posted December 23, 1999 04:31 PM            

Of course, that's #1. And of course, it's going to be very tough to get it done. We've postponed any visit to the "Brief Therapy Institute".

>> 2). She has issues concerning money and your abilities to provide for her and your future. These issues have been addressed it would seem. <<

Well, she gets my updates regularly from Quicken--but though she works with numbers everyday, she says she finds a lot of it meaningless.

We are steadily eliminating debt, but slightly more slowly as she has been the one to activate a 401(k) and replace her car, and though we take in $100K+, and factoring in home appreciation have about a 30% savings rate, it's still not a comfortable situation for her.

>> 3.)She hates her job. Sounds like a very angry/confused/unhappy person here--she sounds an awful lot like me before I received the psychiatric help I needed. <<

Well, the boss sort of slacked on the business-getting for personal and outside business reasons, although things seem to be moving again ... for a while there were layoffs and slowdowns and alliances not consummated.

>> 4.)Cultural differences: I am Italian from a close Italian RC family.<<

It's true, I have been a little uncomfortable around her family (or she has been uncomfortable having me seem in any way comfortable around them--complains I treat her father as an "equal"). They hear a lot of things from her and from their points of view have must have problems with me.

>> Either you are leaving out some huge chunk of your story or she is truly mentally disturbed. <<

posted January 05, 2000 10:14 AM            

My wife gave me permission to add the data regarding her "semi-secret" bank account (the one in her name only that I wasn't supposed to carry on Quicken, but did carry partially anyway). I needed some of the expenses she showed there for tax reasons. When all was said and done, our net worth and savings rate was bumped up by the new information, exactly the opposite effect from what she was expecting.

I went to the Brief Therapy Center for the first time on the last day of the year. The doctor mostly just listened.

I moved out of the bedroom and also prepared divorce papers for my wife's signature, while at the same time giving her Dr. Harley's article about Resentment. Otherwise, I ignored her. Shortly afterward, she finally agreed to see the therapist (although I don't think she has been able to stop playing phone tag with him yet), but still believes there's nothing wrong with her. I agreed that that is a possibility.

She did go to see an attorney yesterday, but has not discussed the result with me. There are two more to go before she's seen all the contestants in the beauty contest. Since I know how things work down here, I told her to be sure the winner knows the judges' bagmen (not entirely joking on that one--the feds and state's attorney have hardly made a dent).

My moving out of the bedroom and iciness toward her (she has been made aware that their is no "being friends" much less contact after divorce) has led to a flurry of phone calls from her, one for help with a very trivial matter (spell check didn't recognize a correctly spelled word), and one to ask me out on a "date".

I spoke to Dr. Harley on the phone Monday afternoon, and was held over until Tuesday. He felt that I should react to her efforts to reconnect (which he felt were classic "approach/avoidance" behavior) by going out on such a date, and making sure she had good conversation with me. Unfortunately, I said no the first time, and last night she studied for a professional exam she's worried about at her brother's place. I don't know what might happen tonight.

On my own, I came up with the following list and e-mailed it to my therapist so that he can do a little prep for talking to her.

These, I believe, are her top problems with me:

1. Does not believe I will do whatever is necessary to support her, and/or potential offspring; but would rather do only what I find stimulating, regardless of the economic consequences.

2. Finds me aloof, cold and callous to others and fears this could happen to her, and/or potential offspring.

3. Believes I do not give 100% effort, develop proper plans, complete tasks and projects, achieve closure.

4. Finds conversation with me frustrating in that I am sometimes impatient hearing about her day, reticent about sharing my day, but am more than willing to talk about news and events, or trivia picked up during the day. Also, I exhibit difficulty talking about feelings.

5. Is aware that I sometimes become depressed and lapse into inactivity.

6. Hostile to my questioning whether she might have generalized anxiety disorder.

7. Dubious of my capacity for change.

posted June 19, 2000 09:11 AM            

What has happened in these last few months is that we have sold our house, I have moved into a condo I bought, she has moved in with her brother, and we have been unable do do much on the counseling front. When she discovered my "ulterior" motive for seeing the first guy, she was angry and wouldn't deal with him. When we went to the Gottman workshop in Seattle in April, we made some good progress (I abandoned my views on anxiety--after Julie Gottman said she didn't have it). Then on our return, we were unable to find anyone she would agree to see in a timely fashion, and our momentum was lost.

So, I'm out; we were fair to each other in the property settlement, eash of us is now alone (perhaps me moreso than her -- she has her brother), and I have started to date again (though it's hardly fair to attempt to do so seriously at this early juncture). I'm still in a bit of disarray from the move last week, but I expect to have my new place looking very nice shortly. Then, it's time to get my business affairs more in order so that a few things can come off the back burner.

posted August 26, 2000 08:48 AM            

I don't know much about your history but I hope you will find happiness, peace, joy and love in life.

At least there is no child involved so you can start again without dragging an innocent through a messy situation.

You obviously have a great deal of talent and I hope when you are very stable in every way, you can give some attention to the less priviledged. I know it helps when I help someone in need. Don't waste your sorrows.

God bless you and your future.