posted March 10, 2000 05:24 PM            

Well, I couldn't let this one go by. This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart and plagues my mind. It is all so complicated.

This is a part of a letter I wrote to the OW but, have never sent. It's explains our 14 year old daughter.

quote:

---

I have offered my H to go to you many times. Those offers were indeed generous too, as there is no way I want to loose my beloved husband for even a minute. Especially to you, as D has more and deeper resentment of you than I have. She really hates you! Wishes she could physically hurt you and spit in your face.

I have tried to help her understand how this all happened. That you alone are not to blame. That the three of us; being he, you and I share that blame. That she needs to forgive. So far that is to no avail.

She has been in therapy by her own choosing to deal with all this. She requests that she be allowed to continue. She has wished her father would “go to you and marry you so that she could make your life a living hell.” That comes from her own mouth not mine.

She was the most loving, happy and wonderful child anyone could ever have. Everyone commented on her sweetness, innocence and inner beauty. The sparkle in her eyes. People felt good when they were around her. Her moods were contagious and they were always good. She was a very kind child. Until your affair with my husband started.

Even though none of us here knew that the affair was happening, she became more and more depressed but, managed to maintain her image outside of our home. She continued to be a joy to all she knew and met. Magical was a good description of her.

She was one of the most popular girls in school. Our phone never seemed to quit ringing for her. Kids would be here all the time. Our home was always filled with many of her friends who would come to hang out. Whether it was for refuge, lack of anything better to do, or just for fun. (Unfortunately her Daddy was not here much and never interacted or got to share in the joy of having these many children around.) She was always there for anyone who needed her. She always tried to lend her ear and heart to anyone who needed it.

When she discovered what had happened between you and her Daddy she changed. At first her friends tried to stick by her. They tried to help and kept asking her what had happened and what was wrong? She withdrew farther and farther into herself. Eventually as children do, many pulled away.
She became unhappy nearly all the time and filled with such anger and hatred. Not to mention fear.

She will never look at men in the same light as before. H thinks maybe that is good because she needs to know that guys are dogs at heart. (Those are his words not mine.)

Her Daddy's infidelity with you will effect her always. Just as H's father's infidelity effected him. To the extent of doing the exact same thing his own father did. Our sins revisit our children. You may not believe that but, it is true. Daughter was the exact age that H was when his father hooked up with a factory rat wh%#e at the GM plant he worked at. His sister did the same thing to her husband at the same time you were carrying on with H. She went on to divorce her husband and now has married the man she had the affair with. His sisters first husband carried on with many women and had many affairs. The disease you helped spread is very contagious.

By the grace of God our daughter will totally heal from this and never commit or be a victim to infidelity again. I pray that your son never does it to the women that will eventually come into his life either.

She has healed some. Still she really hates you and would never accept you with her Daddy, no matter what happens to he and I, or even to me. Even if I should die you would always be way too painful for her to ever accept no matter what. She would readily accept any other woman but never you. If you should ever find yourself with my husband, please remember that...please! Please put your selfish desires and behavior aside and think about her and her needs and walk away. You will only hurt her. Never forget either, she is the most important thing in H life, (other than God and myself) and she will never ever accept you no matter how hard you might try.

I pray for her total healing and for her to forgive you because it is so important for her and her growth.

---

Here is a link to a poem my daughter wrote about the OW.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum18/HTML/000073.html
She had put it up on her bedroom wall last summer hoping her Dad would discover it. We don't invade her privacy much and she has so much stuff on her walls every where that it was never noticed.

A few months later we (her and I) were doing some minor redecorating of her room and I ran across it. I asked her about it and she gave me the above explanation. I was in shock. Later I showed it to her Dad. First he wanted to know who "Pamela" was? I was astounded! Then when I told him and he read it again. He got weird grin on his face (I think it was pride because he thought the poem was well written) and said she is just a kid, she'll get over it. I pray to God he is right. He spoke to her briefly about her poem. He told her she shouldn't feel that way.

Our daughter is, after over a year past recovery, still struggling so much. The other day she said she hated guys and all of the male gender could die. I asked her what about Daddy and her two Grandfathers? She replied "Them too." That only two of her male friends needed to keep living all the rest including the boys she has a crush on could die. She said she hated females too. That they are petty, %itches, and weak. They make her sick. So she is destined to have a life alone because by hating both genders she cannot ever hook up with either one of them.

Later that same evening I was getting ready for her Daddy to come home and making myself "petty." Part of Plan A. I asked her how I looked? She said good but, why do you care? I merely said that I wanted her Daddy to find me attractive just like she wants the boys she is interested in to find her attractive. She came unglued. She said to me "You're one of the main reasons that I hate girls! It is sickening how Dad has become your whole life and that you care how much about what he thinks." I was taken aback by that. I didn't react and knew she was blowing off steam. I tried not to take it personally.

A few days later she said thank you for something I had gotten her and that she loved me. I was teasing her and said "Oh really? A few days ago you said that I was the reason you hated the female gender." She said "I didn't say that." I reminded her of the instance and she said that "Oh Mom, I love you and I really didn't mean that." I know at the time she said it she did mean it. We all say things in moments of anger that we don't mean or wish we could take back. Still though, usually there is some truth in some of what we have said.

It saddens me greatly to see that she views doing the right thing as "weak." Doing the right thing is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. Leaving this marriage when I had found out would have been easier in a long run. I would have still hurt greatly but, it would have had a certain finality to it. By now the pain would not have been felt so much. I wouldn't have had to work so hard. Still my daughter views it as weak and needy. Hopefully that will change in time as she learns and grows.

I remember her being so angry at me for not kicking her Dad out of the house. I remember a few times when she said "If Daddy doesn't want me and you then screw him! He can leave and have the %itch." This child took what her Daddy did personally. He did it to her in her mind too. To her he betrayed us both. I naturally explained that it was not about her at all. I don't think she believes what I said in her heart. Her self esteem is at an all time low. Her level of confidence is horrible. After all if Daddy could do this to her then she can't be worth much?

I also remember many months later, her telling me that "It is all my fault that Daddy had the affair. If I had just been better, got better grades....ect." I told her that there was no way she was responsible. That her Dad stayed here at first only because of her and the commitment he made to me in front of God. (my husband has said since the beginning after discovery that "God did leave any way out in the marraige vows!) I know she heard and understood what I said and I believe she knows it is the truth. I don't think however she feels it is the truth. That is what is important here is what she feels.

She struggles with her feelings about God. Whether there is one or not. Some of that is normal teenage questioning. Some of it is a result of what has happened in our home. She wonders how there could be a God if such painful things could happen to her, when after all she had nothing to do with them? How could there be a God if her mother who tries to lead a Godly life could be hurt so badly? How could God let this happen? This saddens me the most.

The saving grace in all of this is God. I know that by her Daddy and I staying together and trying to work this out, we are showing her a good thing. If by again God's grace and our hard work, we stay together and eventually become happy again, then we have shown her that good and Godly things can come of even the worst of bad situations.

In the meantime we all have to hurt, learn and grow. I pray that everyone here on this site and we here in this house do so as expediently as God in his infinite wisdom and mercy allows.

Anyone no matter if they are betrayed, betrayer, OW or OM who says or thinks that this does not negatively impact the children are full of garbage. We can't feel what they feel but, I suspect the feelings for them are even more profound than they are for us?

Now I have as usual said too much as it is! I am a hard one to shut up. I apologize for the length of this reply. It is just a subject I have so much feeling about and so much to say. Bye bye for now. Much love to each and every one of you.

------------------
God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't loose. What God has joined together let no man put asunder.

Samantha

posted March 10, 2000 06:27 PM            

It must be a family pattern because my h had to go through this when he was about the same age as my daughters are. His mom had a drinking problem but another woman came into the picture. His dad ended marrying ow and life has been a living hell for my H with this woman.

Also, my h's OW has told him that she had an affair with a married man before that lasted a while and she confessed to a lesbian affair. She was at first married longago and has two children. No one is sure why the marriage ended. Makes one wonder about her family history.

This disease must be stopped! It is spreading to fast!

Pam

posted March 10, 2000 06:29 PM            

Thank you for taking the time to writing all of that down. It does give me hope and reassurance in God's plan for me, and for my family, in that it is not too late.

posted March 10, 2000 06:33 PM            

Does OW woman actually think that over time things will heal and my kids will accept her? I think not and she would never be welcome at any event for my kids like weddings, graduation. Way to much pain involved.

posted March 10, 2000 07:18 PM            

It definitely runs in families. I highly recommend the book "Torn Asunder." Here is the link...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0802477488/o/qid=952735558/sr=2-1/104-1177961-7047663

The book doesn't apply in many ways to my situation and us. First of all in comes from a strong Christian view point and deals a lot with both spouses having a close relationship with God. My husband in my opinion does not have a close relationship with God. Secondly our marriage had gotten horrible. (Did anyone here have a horribly bad marriage before the affair started?) I think however for you in would be well worth the read and worth it for most of us. I did get insights out of it and understanding. I just yet haven't found a book besides SAA by Harley that fit us as well.

I found out just last night that husband's OW was still married when this secret friendship first started out. He says she was seperated. (She was sleeping on the couch and wanted her husband out. He did not want out of the marriage and wouldn't leave. This was his second marriage. Makes me wonder if she was instrumental in the ending of that marriage?) She was also dating another friend of his from the plant at the same time. He happened to have lost his wife a while before because of infidelity. What a tangled web they all wove huh?

I wonder too about the dynamics of her family when she was growing up? She was on her second marriage when she reintroduced herself to my husband. (They had known one another barely when they were in their early teens but, were never friends. She had a crush on him from afar during the rest of their school years. He never knew and barely knew she had ever existed.)

She divorced her first husband after ten years and married the second when she knew she wasn't or had ever been in love with him. I am sure she has much baggage too.

I know my husband's OW felt that kids will move on and just adjust. I don't think intelligence is one of her strong points!

I think you may find out the answer to your daughters question in the book. As a matter of fact thinking back on your story I think that perhaps this book is just what you need. I hope that you order or go out and by the book post haste.

Guard

I know both your wife and you. I have followed your story and pray for the restoration of your marriage.

Your also very welcome. I am glad that the reply gave you hope.

Your wife has been through much pain and so have your children as you know. Remember that God has forgiven you. Your wife has forgiven you often and by the grace of God, she will be able to again. But, you are right no matter what happens God does indeed have a plan for you.

The most important thing is that you keep up your resolve to stay close to God. Do his will and work daily on becoming first a better servant to Him! The rest will fall into place just as it should.

I also recommend considering your relationship with God to read "Torn Asunder." I think that you will find it very beneficial.

Before I get any wordier here I will remember to keep both you (Guard & Pinky) in my prayers tonight.

------------------
God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't loose. What God has joined together let no man put asunder.

posted March 10, 2000 08:27 PM            

I am a girl of 13 whose parents are going through a divorce and the OW was my dad's sectretary. I was good friends with her as she was always kind to me and i was friendly with her daughter whom she had at 16. She is 29 now and her life is still off tracks. Never can say no to a guy. Not only did my parent's marriage fall apart but I lost a good friend, her daughter.I battled through things like all children do and then my father told me they never broke it off. Over time I became used to the fact that he was with her and decided to see her. Things were fine on the saturday but on the sunday of my dad's weekend I blew up. I told her how I
hated her and how I hated what she did to us. I tried talking to my dad and she was like holding him back. Then she sat there and told me how she lost a job and some friends. Paleeze, nice try I told hher I lost a lot more but like she cared. I was thinking later on in my head she did this to herself and she also did it to me but does she suffer in the end? no. she can't even have custody of her child cause she's so screwed up and i can see that this woman is going nowhere.i told them both to f*** off when i got out of the car and she held him back. My dad was angry at me for the disrespect but like...... I never should've said that but she has no right to come between moi and my pa.

here is a leter i wrote to her at the begining of my catastrophe on my own with my own feelings but was advised my mother and my therapist not to lower my self to her level by sending it
not changed at all names included
lindsay=daughter
laurie=*****

I DON’T KNOW WHY I’M WASTING MY TIME WRITING THIS TO A B@TCH LIKE YOU.YOU ALWAYS SAY HOW I SHOULD NOT LIE, BUT YOU JUST KEPT LYING TO MY FACE.WHEN LINDSEY AND I WOULD ASK YOU WHO YOU WERE WITH YOU WOULD SAY "NOBODY" WHEN YOU KNEW YOU WERE DESTROYING MY FAMILY.YOU LED MY FATHER ON, KNOWING THAT HE WAS MARRIED TO A GREAT WIFE AND MOTHER AND HAD 4 GREAT KIDS WHOSE LIVES WERE FOREVER CHANGED DUE TO YOUR ACTIONS.IF THERE WAS ONE THING I WANTED IN LIFE IT WAS TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A HAPPY FAMILY UNIT WITH 2 PARENTS LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE, BUT ALL THAT WAS ON YOUR MIND WAS YOURSELF.NEVER THOUGHT TO THINK OF LINDSAY OR MY MOTHER.THEN AFTER YOUR FIRST MISTAKE OF BEING WITH MY DAD IN SECRET, YOU JUST COULDN’T HAVE HURT ME ENOUGH SO YOU STILL HOOKED UP WITH MY DAD AFTER MY MOM FOUND OUT WHEN YOU KNEW THAT THAT WAS THE LAST THING I WANTED IN THE WORLD.IF YOU WANT MONEY THINK AGAIN YOU’LL DO BETTER STANDING ON A STREET CORNER WHERE BIMBOS LIKE YOU BELONG.YOU ARE A SELFISH B*TCH AND CAN ONLY THINK ABOUT YOURSELF.I DID NOTHING YET I’M THE ONE THAT’S HURTING THE MOST BECAUSE OF YOU.YOU F***ED UP WITH YOUR DAUGHTER AND KYLE(LINDSEY'S FATHER) AND DESTROYED MY LIFE FOREVER.YOU NEVER THINK OF OTHERS AND YOU F*** UP WHATEVER YOU DO.I FEEL VERY SORRY FOR ALL THOSE THAT ARE IN CONTACT WITH YOU.AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, A GIRL LIKE YOU SHOULD GROW UP AND LIKE THEY ALWAYS SAY “STICK WITH PEOPLE YOUR OWN AGE”. NOT OLD ENOUGH TO BE YOUR DAD.

p.s. this is my mom's account and now I am friendly with this b*tch because my dad said if I want to see him it's a package deal

posted March 10, 2000 11:58 PM            

Thanks Sam for the book recommendation.

I sure hope all of our sons and daughters can pull through this in one piece.

I will remember all in my prayers. I am not very religious as far as going to church but I still talk to him.

posted March 11, 2000 12:12 AM            

I'm at the point where I have to decide what I want to do: stay married or separate/divorce. One of the main things that has weighed heaviest is what this will do to my kids (12, 10). I don't want to hurt them, yet I see that they have already changed due to the tension between my W and myself. Continuing on the current patyh is distructive, but what is worse?

My W seems to have no inteest whatsoever in rebuilding. I'm starting to lose faith. I don't want the kids to get caught in the middle, and many have suggested that I move into Plan B. But, I don't want to give them the impression that I am abandoning them.

I am very active in their lives. I coach them, we goof around, I try to attend as much school activities as I can (although, with work, it's few and far between). I have not been absent in their lives.

What do I do when I'm looking at how this will torment them for years to come? I'm particularly interested in Willbok99's viewpoint, since my daughter is 12. And, my D know the OM like she knows her dad's OP.

I'll try to check back later tonight. Otherwise, I'll check back on Monday am, PST.

Thanks,

posted March 11, 2000 12:07 PM            

still cannot spell guys! sorry

posted March 12, 2000 12:20 AM            

I also know that until they did they were not "fogged up" with rewriting history and had not so totally lost it.

But, once on this very destructive course, they have to justify their own happiness and insist that everyone else accept this with no responsibility for the resulting chaos. In my case, H has stated to all that the kids are just fine and if they are not, well they live with their mother and it is therefore her fault!!!

If the adulterous parent simply wants to sweep the whole thing under the carpet, the children will need the intervention of therapists...they can see things a lot more clearly. To tell teens that their father/mother loves them and is a parent to them when s/he is never there for parental things and does not offer unconditional love is unacceptable.
Our children are a lot more perseptive than we give them credit for. We can only be there for them 100% and try to help them sort this out even if we have trouble.

Unfortunately, who the parent picks as their SO impacts on the kids and this is where it is frightening...they have no choice at all in being with someone who is a disaster (and I know many OP are not dreadful people, but H's OW is)

All my 4 teenagers have impacted from this, the 2 younger ones still at home have had a very hard time while the 2 at school have not been home for much of the craziness, but even though removed have not found this all that easy and this will impact not onl;y on their future relationships, but also on trust etc and their relationships with both their father and myself....and this should not be.....

It is this aspect that still gets to me, how much the kids are affected and the stupidity H has shown throughout all this mess in so many of his choices regarding the children and his dealing , or not dealing with any of this and leaving me to clean up his mess.

posted March 12, 2000 06:57 AM            

Our son said months ago that he never wants to get married because he doesn't want to risk doing the same thing to his wife that my H did to me.

posted March 12, 2000 05:56 PM            

Yes my children have been affected. I see it almost everyday. I can only do so much...talk nice about their dad.....hold them....tell them I love them....listen....help them with their problems (be it school or social)....get them counseling...etc.

I have been a great mom.....they know it and I know it.