posted May 16, 2000 02:41 PM            

This needs to be read by all. Very insightful. Thank you for sharing.

What stings me is that for the vast majority of people, being a betrayer is not a one-time decision. No one says - "from now on I will be unfathful to my spouse. I am now a betrayer".
Worse than that, it is a decision made a thousand times over...

"I think I'll send OP an email"
"I think I'll call OP on the phone"
"I wonder if OP sent me an email"
"I enjoy daydreaming about OP"
"I want to tell OP about my unhappy marriage"
"I better hide my relationship from my spouse."
"I think I'm developing feelings for OP"
"I'm going to tell OP my feelings"
"I'm going to have sex with OP"
"I guess I'll lie to my spouse if suspicious questions are asked."
"I'll cover my butt by getting angry at my spouse if I get caught"

And each small decision is a betrayal by itself. When hundreds or thousands of these pile up - no wonder it is the "mother of all battles" to restore the marriage.

posted May 16, 2000 04:46 PM            

"And each small decision is a betrayal by itself. When hundreds or thousands of these pile up - no wonder it is the "mother of all battles" to restore the marriage."

Who's been following my H around? Most of the above.

posted May 16, 2000 10:06 PM            

Sadly it is original - came right out of my tortured mind. It occurred to me that betrayal is not like sudden death, but is the emotional equivalent of the old "death by a thousand cuts".

Many people here have observed that they could probably get past the affair itself, but it is the accompanying lies and deceit of the betrayer, and especially the multitude of individual decisions to betray that shred the heart of the betrayed. <sigh>

posted May 17, 2000 07:05 AM            

Do you think then that there is any hope of getting past these.... what might be literally hundreds of lies? As a betrayer, I'm not sure I can get beyond the situation - what I have done...how can I imagine that my H will?

Seems an impossible feat.

Also can I ask, for those WS, like myself who look to working to 'get things right'..as one who had been betrayed do you feel you want apologies for each lie? What I'm getting at is at what point do you NOT want to hear more - for lack of a better word - confession??

posted May 17, 2000 07:40 AM            

quote:

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Do you think then that there is any hope of getting past these.... what might be literally hundreds of lies?

---

I think every case is different. But I strongly believe that to have a chance at fixing this the follwing has to occur:

* The level of repentence, re-dedication, and reassurance conveyed to the betrayed spouse needs to be in proportion to the amount of betrayal. Extraordinary damage requires extraordinary efforts to repair.

* The betrayed spouse has to be willing to forgive - an extraordinary effort in itself given the circumstances.

quote:

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betrayed do you feel you want apologies for each lie?

---

No. I don't thnk there is any value to apologizing for each individual lie, but willingness to acknowledge the types of betrayals engaged in (some of which are listed above) and expressing deep regret, remorse, and humble apology would go a long way toward convincing me that the sorrow is real. This would help me be able to forgive.

Don't give up hope Dawnn. Certainly there is no guarantee of the outcome. But it is worth the attempt.

posted May 17, 2000 07:56 AM            

The only thing that can repair trust now is complete honesty. I, for one, feel a great sense of (guilty) relief that now my husband knows everything and can find nothing else that he doesn't already know about.

posted May 17, 2000 08:09 AM            

Let me add that the betrayed spouse also needs to work hard at becoming a better spouse, meeting their spouse's Emotional Needs, and repenting and apologizing for any damage he or she caused in the marriage.

By no means is the burden for reconciliation primarily on the shoulders of the betrayer!

posted May 17, 2000 09:22 AM            

Thanks so much for your responses. I appreciate them very much.

2sad - a friend I spoke to recently said a similar thing, about the needs how both parties need to identify and work on them. Always a two way street. Under what can at times feel like life threatening guilt, your pointing out that approaching the problem as a team is helpful - and creates some hope for me as opposed to despair. I would never argue that what I have done was justified in any way shape or form, but we all need a reason to go on, even after such a devastating failure. I would imagine a lot of betrayers appreciate that 'ray' of hope.

again, thank you both for sharing.

posted May 17, 2000 11:49 AM            

That touched me. I mean yeah there are a thousand little cuts, and that's hard to get over but the weight of that pain has already been beared. The key is to do your best not to cut anymore...at least until some of the ones that have been made are healed.

I know when the affair was fresh with us, it wasn't the affair itself that tested my resolve. I'd already dealt with that, and decided in an instant to try and find a way to fix things. It was the continued pulling away, the contact made afterwards, the hurtful comments that tested my resolve. It was like slapping the back of someone who had third degree burns all over.

A kind word, an evening of fun together, a hug were much needed salves. They made the occasional fall from grace, although painful, bearable.

I guess the comment struck me on another level because it made me realize that some of the hesitancy to get to work comes from that fear. Will I do all this work, fall in love again just to have my husband/wife retaliate by leaving me in the end? Has he/she planned this as my punishment?

As a betrayed the thought hadn't crossed my mind. Boy I understand that fear though. Makes me want to hug all betrayers and say no...we have forgiven.

posted May 18, 2000 09:07 AM            

quote:

---

I know when the affair was fresh with us, it wasn't the affair itself that tested my resolve. I'd already dealt with that, and decided in an instant to try and find a way to fix things. It was the continued pulling away, the contact made afterwards, the hurtful comments that tested my resolve.

---

VERY true. Sometimes the affair ends suddenly with disclosure. But based on what I read around here, it often continues at least for a while. The "cuts" that occur during this time hurt the worst because they are inflicted with everybody's eyes wide open.

To think that a spouse would CONTINUE to inflict such pain is shattering. It shows us a heartless side of our spouse we never would have believed existed.

posted May 18, 2000 11:33 AM            

I know that happens. That's why plan B becomes important. Let's cut off the withdrawals before the account has been so abused you can never bank there again.

Maybe there are people out there that would take a breath after D-Day and then think, "I have the perfect plan for getting my spouse back...Let's make them think everything is ok, and all is forgiven and then give them a taste of their own medicine. I just don't think that happens very often. Why put all that energy into it when if you really wanted things to end you could just walk out the door and not look back?

posted May 18, 2000 12:24 PM            

I agree that a executing a good Plan A with the intention of setting up the WS to be the victim of a revenge affair or abandonment is an unlikely circumstance. Plan A is too hard to do - not worth it if the payoff is just revenge.

quote:

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It was the fact that he stayed that gave me hope.

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I'm not sure I can agree with you on this...

Judging by recent posts by several notable WSs here, inertia, indecision, or simply paralysis due to the ethical or religious dilemma involved seems to be all that prevents many from leaving. You have to be quite the optimist to see "hope" in those situations.

------------------
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
Galatians 5:22-23

posted May 18, 2000 02:51 PM            

I think that if absolutely no needs were being met, and therefore no love deposits ever being put in the account one of two things would happen...

1) self preservation would kick in, and they'd leave.

2) self preservation wouldn't kick in, and they'd exit out of life.

As for continuing on in an affair that happens when both parties keep meeting at least some of the needs.

I think indecision comes from this deposit/withdrawal dynamic that happens in the lovebank. The spouse deposits they want to stay, the spouse makes a withdrawal they want to leave. The OP makes a bigger deposit they want to leave. The OP makes a smaller deposit they want to stay..Same relationship with the lovebusters.

I know religious and ethical, family concerns can be a big pull, but in a truelly loveless, unbearable situation I still think self preservation will win out. Job began to question his faith when misery began to get to him. I think there are very few (if any of us) that could maintain complete misery for very long.