posted August 10, 2000 06:50 AM            

I went to scrapbook get-togethers during this time and OW was there, but treated me cool and seemed to be watching me. Update; PA was in progress at this time.
In the spring of 99 I had a couple surgeries and then the diagnosis of breast cancer. More surgery followed and then chemotherapy in the summer. Update is that H was sex at the office 3 times a week, after hours.

H has a overnight business trip planned with a salesman, but at he last minute the OW goes instead. They leave late in the day for the long drive H says he didn't want her to drive it alone at night. (Update: H now says he did not want to go, turned around and came back, then decided to go with her for her safety, but ended up having sex when she cried.) At this time I began to worry about the relationship between them. She is married but her husband stays at a vacation home and they get together on the week-ends.

In the fall of 99, H has angioplasty, his mother has angioplasty and my step mother dies. We fly twice to my father's and finally have to place him into an Alzheimers facility. After a month (I am in daily radiation by then) H flies to bring my father back here near us, and he is in a facility here, and he died (9/1/00)
H not intimate for over a year, didn't want to bother me while I was sick. (Everyone said they didn't know how I kept my spirits up, even the dr, and the lack of closeness with H was what bothered me most of all.)He says he thought I would initiate intimacy, but he was having slight potency problems in the past (PA had started) and I was feeling very bald and ugly, couldn't risk the rejection. H goes to bed and turns away to sleep, sometimes not talking the whole evening. (H says the guilt was horrible, not worth the PA)

In Spring of 2000 I return a call (11:30am) to H and learn that "they" are gone to deliver a part and lunch. He returns my call at 2:30 and when asked, says he and OW went to discuss goals put before them by the Corp.

A few days later when we are supposed to visit my father who has been disruptive, he says he won't be home til late because OW is meeting with her financial advisor at work after hours. Later that night I tell H that I am tired of him putting her concerns ahead of ours. He says he had told her they couldn't go to lunch anymore because it was causing problems at home (! If I hadn't found out, they could still go...)

We talk of the lack of intimacy and H says he waited for me to initiate and after awhile he didn't want it and doesn't miss it. While talking H says the lunches began 1 1/2 yrs ago (but receipts show 2 yrs) and that he took flowers (gift from the company) to her apartment when she had surgery. (update: he didn't take flowers, forgot why he went but thought flowers would be logical because of her surgery, some kissing and she showed him incisions) I couldn't believe that.. but he says he doesn't know why he did it, just told the office girl to order them and that he would pick them up (all lies). He never gives flowers to me, even during this past year. That might well have been the most hurtful thing so far, but I think it is an accumulation of all the incidences.
We start counseling tomorrow and both are reading some books.
Lately when I start any intimacy, H falls asleep right away, so I am just waiting to see what counselor and MB can say to help.

UpDate Jan01
We have been in counseling for almost 5 months. H likes it and we have become close again, but not without set backs. H has never given any information unless I ask.
About a month after starting counseling (H advised not to have one on one with OW, agreed, but still staying after hours with her) H says he was going to work a couple hours on a Sat. I said I would go along to shop for a gift after he was done. He became nervous, wouldn't look at me, and I held his face and told him I could amuse myself for a couple hours. When we got near the company H turned the wrong way, I questioned this and H said he had forgotten his keys. We stopped for gas and I asked him to drive by the office, he said sure. OW car was the only one there!
I told him how dishonest this was, that we hadn't made any progress with the counseling. We went into the office and OW rolled her chair into view and said HI, H was standing by her, both looking at me. Overwhelmed, I thought I would be sick.

H is defensive and critical of me, swearing in my presence. Out of character for him.
I ask about it saying he wouldn't do it at work, he says 'true, it would show disrespect'. I give away my two pets because he claimed he had no control over them coming into the house. H is shocked.

In Oct OW quit her job and H quit his the next day. This was because of a problem with headquarters but it looked as if they quit as a unit.
H took a job at another company, 3 days a week and there was an almost immediate change in his attitude. He smiled more, he called me during the day, he is loving and kind. A complete 180.
OW not working near here, moved to her place up north. No contact other than one call a week after they quit.

Update Summer01~Recovery still brings more disclosure.
I had asked about gifts early after DD. H always said there were none, he gave all office personal calendars during holidays.
I noticed a display of porcelain boxes at his office recently. He said he buys them for himself.
After more talk, he brings home several gifts; magnifying glass, coffee mugs, large grill tool set. Later, he admits she gave him the boxes too, and brings them home. I package up the gifts and send them to her H, restricted delivery, he signed for them. After that,I got one call that I believe was her (daughter answered, strange cold woman's voice), but wasn't home to take it.
Details of intimacy hurt the worst. Just days ago H wrote a 4 page note, telling of yet another day trip, motel etc. Admitted sex in the car on trips.
H claims he cared for her, but never stopped loving me, would never have considered leaving me, though OW asked repeatedly and he thought out the 'cons' that such a decision would present.
There has been no contact, but one ex co worker still sees OW and then calls H. They talk business but OW name comes up.

[This message has been edited by LAD (edited January 13, 2001).]

posted August 15, 2000 12:44 PM            

disclosure 12/99 "almost mistake 1996"

predisclosure plan A implemented 5/99
I feel confident we will recover, making heaps of progress

Do not 100% agreement to the basic concepts, so will continue with plan A until then.

My advice, is:
1) Decide you want your marriage to work, whether there is disclosure or not
2) Pray and follow the MB principles of Plan A/B until there is a commitment to the basic concepts

Newbies: I am very sorry you have to be here, especially at the infidelity section. But life will get better, if you really want it too.

Also, I do not post to the newbies very often, life is adjusting - but I lurk once in a while, and post to the old timers. Your posts aren't going ignored - but it may feel this way sometimes when you join MB. Many of us lurk and say a prayer for you.

posted August 16, 2000 01:17 AM            

On morning of 8/2, after H left for work, I snooped in his overnight bag. I found a hotel receipt and key card tucked inside a key card envelope. Didn't think too much of it at first -- he travels all the time with his job. Then I looked a little closer llok at the name of the hotel and it didn't sound like one where he usually stays. Then I looked again at the receipt -- the hotel was located in our home town and it was for the Saturday night that I was gone. There was something else inside the envelope -- a condom (not one of ours). Another look inside the bag produced a note written on the hotel's note pad that said, "Joe (not his real name) Had to get going. Didn't want to wake you. Talk to ya later, Sue (not her RN). I was hysterical!

I tried and tried to reach him on his cell phone but it was turned off because he was in a meeting. I then called a mutual friend (and also the wife of one of his co-workers) to get her H cell phone number to try to get a hold of him that way. I asked her if she knew someone named "Sue". She said yes, that was the daughter of one of our H's co-workers. I fell further into despair. She's only 21 and a total knockout.
I told my friend what I had found and she was shocked.

I finally got a hold of my H. I was furious and asked him several times if he had cheated on me. He finally said yes, that he had. He agreed to come to the house after his meetings to talk.

In the meantime, I called this girl. I confronted her and she said she was led to believe our marriage was over. I told her, if it was, it was news to me. Initially, I was so mad at her, but as our conversation progressed it became apparent to me that she was a child and had no wish to be caught in the middle of this mess. She seemed to be a victim in this, too.

When my H finally came home, he was not remorseful, he was more angry. He said as far as he was concerned the marriage had been over for some time. I told him it would have been nice of him to let ME know that. He said he was moving out. He proceeded to pack up some of his things while I completely humiliated myself and begged him to stay. He left that day (8/2).

The next couple of days were a blur. I spent a lot of time on the phone talking to friends and family, looking for love, support and prayers. There were many.

On that following Fri am (8/4), I decided to try and call this girl's father (remember, my H co-worker). When I reached him, he already knew and so did his boss (also my H boss). The girl had actually called and told her father herself -- then he told his boss. The father was furious with my H and was devasted himself by what had happened. We shared some words of comfort then he told me that his daughter had mentioned a gun to her head would remedy the situation. I told him to tell her that I forgive her. I didn't want this to be a scar on this young girl's life. (As far as I know, they are both doing fine)

I didn't call my H and didn't hear from him until Saturday afternoon (8/5). He called and was mad at me because I had called "everyone." I told him I needed the love and support and I didn't think I had done anything wrong. He felt like I was trying to manipulate him.

He said as he saw it, he had two choices, 1) Stay with me and stay with his job or, 2) Leave his job and move back to his home state. I asked why he felt these were his only two choices and he said that his boss had more or less given him an ulimatum. I told him that under no circumstances would I accept a "forced" relationship with him. He had to *want* to work things out or it wouldn't work at all. He seemed to calm down a little bit after that and said he was going to come to the house.

When he got there, we talked for a little while and he seemed unsure about what he wanted to do. He wouldn't commit to staying or going. It finally got to be dinner time and I invited him to stay. We ate dinner and watched a movie and actually had some pleasant conversation. It was getting late and I told him he could stay if he wanted. He said he would see. When it got much later it was apparent that he had decided to stay. I was going to bed and asked if he was going to come upstairs. He didn't say anything. So I went over to him and gave him a quick kiss on the mouth -- which caught him by surprise -- and said I hoped he decided to come up. He did.

We slept in the same bed that night, but it was quite platonic. The next day, I fixed him breakfast and was nice to him all day. I had to leave in the afternoon to go pick up my son -- I was going to be gone for 4 - 5 hours. He said he was going golfing with some friends. I invited him to come back that evening for dinner.

I arrived home around 6pm and at 7:30 he called and said they had just finished golfing and he was on his way home. He hadn't showed me that kind of courtesy for some time. We had a very nice dinner that night and more just nice time together watching a movie.

We went up to bed together and I wanted desparately to make love to him. I initiated physical contact with him, but he was hesitant. He finally said, he didn't think he was "good enough." I assured him that I loved him and wanted him -- and we made love. It was different though. It was like he was not completely there emotionally. I was not sure it had been the right thing to do -- too soon maybe.

The next morning, I saw him off to work (something I don't usually do) and I sent a couple of yummy sandwiches with him from our roast beef the night before. He was going to his 2nd office in a neighboring town and from there was leaving for his home state for a family reunion and his G'pa's 80th birthday party. We had originally planned on going on the trip together, but after D-day he said he didn't want me to go -- he needed some time. I asked him before he left that morning if I couldn't just come out a couple days later and leave earlier so I wouldn't have to miss the celebrations. He relunctantly agreed.

He called me that night (good), Tues night (good) and Wednesday night (not so good). Soon after our conversation Weds night he left for parents home.

On Thurs, my son and I left for the trip. We only went part way and arrived at his parents on Fri afternoon. My H was not there (on purpose) and he didn't show up until 1 am after the bar was closed. His parents and I were all still up and he came home mad at me. I asked why and he said again, because I had called "everyone." He also said that he had not wanted me to come, but I had insisted.

We got into a big fight and he said he wanted it over. He said he didn't love me "that way" anymore -- that he hadn't loved me for a long time. I felt like I was going to slide right off the face of the earth. I left his parents house that night and went and stayed in a motel room. The next day, I came back by and picked up my son and we left to come home.

At this point, I was so confused. He seemed receptive the last few days before he left. He was even saying that he loved me (when I said it to him) but once he said it first. Now, he was completely withdrawn again.

When I got home I called his parents home and spoke with his brother just to let them know we had arrived safely. After that, I just waited and did not make any contact.

Today (tues) he was due to come back from parents. He called around 9:30pm and said he was going to "drop by" and pick up his mail. I was Plan Aing all the way and it went pretty well (see my post under Emotional Recovery).

That is my story to date -- 8/2/00

God Bless, KristyAnn

posted August 16, 2000 09:10 AM            

Most of marriage there has been love busting and failure to meet her most important emotional needs on my part.

Aug 4 came home and was told she loved me, just wasn't "in love with me".

Immediately ceased love busting and trying to restore love bank account. Had first session with Jennifer 9 Aug. W initially seemed uninterested, but may be slowly developing an interest in working to fix us. We have talked more in the last 10 days than in the last 3 years. Have been visiting the site to try and find a spouse with the same feelings as mine to help me craft a plan to help her fall back in love with me.

[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited Aug 21, 2000).]
Just an update, I gave up, and accept it's over...

posted August 16, 2000 05:41 PM            

We have one six year old son.

I discovered affair 5/29/00. It had started in March. OW is fellow tenured faculty and so is OWH. OW has two sons, 11 and 14.

I wanted him to stay. He said he was confused and didn't know what he wanted. After three weeks he told me he wanted to be with OW. I fell apart, but so did he. After talking to friends, I suggested separation in which we put decision on hold. He agreed.

I discovered Harley's SAA book and this website. Tried to begin doing plan A, and asked him not to move out. He feels he has to move out.

He stayed in house for time being though. Had apartment lined up for 8/1/00. In meantime, OW starts to have doubts about disrupting her family. H is extremely depressed, suicidal. He sees a counselor who says he shouldn't be alone, so he gives up apartment.

I need to see someone but also want counseling together. Trying to figure out insurance and so forth. Haven't seen anyone yet.

8/16/00 H says it's definite now that OW doesn't want to break up her marriage for her kids sake. He is in withdrawal. Has started on antidepressant. Will continue to work with her, however.

posted August 16, 2000 06:28 PM            

------------------
Chick's
Bren

posted August 17, 2000 11:24 PM            

I wasn't allowed back into the condo after I got out of hospital. W said she wouldn't take it to D, but was convinced a legal separation would solve the financial burden of maintaining 2 homes. 3 weeks after getting out of the hospital, found evidence that suggested she was going ahead with D.

When I confronted her, we got into a verbal argument that she turned physical. I wrestled her to ground after being pushed & hit, then I went to jail. I haven't seen W or 3 sons since June - love our legal system! I now have the option of pursuing visitation with my sons, but am choosing not to at this point as my W is already acting very mentally unstable & I want them to gain some stability. Also, pushing forward on that issue would push forward other issues and I refuse to help the D go any faster.

I won't be allowed to see W until Sept, 2002, because pled "no contest" ($$ & stability factors), so I'm trying to put my life together between now and then...

Oh yes, she has the car and I lost my job over getting arrested. So I'm back to square one in just about every sense of the phrase. I'm using this time to get back in touch with what I want out of life, how I want to live it and what kind of work I want to do that incorporates both.

posted August 18, 2000 11:40 AM            

marriage has not been very satisfying for either of us for about 5 yrs. H took on promotion, because of feelings at home or not, I don't know, but new job consisted of a lot of travelling. We have not met EN, or were very good at communicating our needs. I thought I was being very talkitive, of course. He moved on before he expressed his discontent.

A started a yr ago. Someone he met on a week-long trip. PA started the next time he visited her state. It is a long distance A. He even got a new cell Phone in the last year with free long distance. He talked to her every day.

Dday for me was 8/5. He had taken my daughter on a date and called OW from the restaurant. My daughter even talked to her!! When they got home, she told me about calling his friend; 11:30 Sunday night, her time--It was pretty obvious. I forced it out of him. Called for a counselor the next day. We saw the counselor the following day. Per her advice,(and it took a week) he has told the OW not to contact him for 2 mos. while he works on marriage.

Since then I have found that he loves her, and can't leave her; now. She is not quite divorced either, and no kids. He feels like sh**, and very guilty. I am trying to plan A but am getting bitter about his inability to come up with even one feeling that has to do with our marriage or even his A. He is a wasteland. All he can think of is her, even though he has kept to the 2 month seperation, I think. I think in his mind he will be ABLE to talk to her AFTER, so he is OK with that. But is showing signs of withdrawl. He is taking No nonsense from the kids and their behavior; this he has never done. He is giving me the time, but not the effort to analyse the marriage and where and when it went wrong. I hope the counselor can open him up.

I have been very supportive to him emotionally so he can release any pent up emotions, but it is not working yet. But he is amazed I can be that way. That is largely to do with MB and the support daily I find here. He feels even more guilty.

We have not continued an intimate relationship; I won't until he decides he is definitely leaving her for good. It would be that much harder for me. I don't think he wants it anyway. He wants me to be the bad guy I think---tough! I'm stayin!

posted August 22, 2000 01:04 PM            

Jim Your the best for keeping all this stuff up for everyone!!

Newbies I am so sad to see all these new names and unfamiliar stories. I too, lurk quite a bit, and reply to my friends that I've grown to know. Post replies to other's situations and you too, will make lots of new friends here, and I hope that the MB principles may work in saving your marriage. Prayers to all

MY STORY

At the time I am writing this update, I will be 28 years old in a few weeks. I was with my stbxH for 11 years. He is still 27. We have 3 daughters, ages 9, 7 and 2. We were together a full 7.5 years before we were married, as well as broke up for a year along that path before we got married. We were married 2.5 years . Well actually, by the time my divorce is final, we'll be married about 3 years.

My stbxH left us on Xmas day. He told me that it was because he didn't know who he was. He needed to "find" himself. I felt terrible. Here we were, him 26 and myself 27, with 3 kids, a house, 2 cars, everything you could hope for, he had that career thing getting started. I was the happy wife . We had our share of ups and downs but we both felt it was part of us being way too young (17) when we met and having our first child shortly after didn't help.

A week later, I found out he brought new GF to his mom's (the backstabber) on New Years. His mom told me of this awful woman yet months later, sided with her in the end. I found out for sure on Jan. 7 that he was seeing another woman. He met her at work. I can trace definete things back to October of 99. He claims they never slept together until after he moved out. Which, in his eyes, Xmas day, is no big deal.

I gave him one month to get his crap together and make a decision. The children were in pain, I was depressed and sick. Gave him til January 26. He decided to come home. Went to OW's to get his stuff, then she helped him change his mind.

A few weeks later, on Valentine's Day, I got served horrible divorce papers suing me for everything, it was ridiculous.

Started a 5 month long, costly divorce battle that was emotionally draining. I attempted Plan A in the beginning of the break up, but in my heart, I didn't believe I could ever trust him after the severity of his abandonment.

By June 21, we finally agreed on divorce. Well, he withdrew and I actually counter sued. Anyhow, as of today, we are still not divorced, and court was 2 months ago. I am sure it will come any day now.

I have been in counseling, and work hard to look at things with an open mind. I do believe there were things in our marraige that were not perfect, and there was a time when I would have saved it. At this point, I am confident with my decision that we just grew up differently and may not have made that ultimate life long dream. We are too different.

I have forgiven him for ME. He did a lot of horrible things to me and our kids, but I needed to do that to be in a healthy relationship and to gain closure.

Deep down, I feel no excuse in the world, except severe abuse, should warrant any spouse from abandoning the other on any holiday, much less Xmas. For that, I do not respect him as a person any longer.

He tries to make advances at me all the time. I am not even attracted to him anymore, its a shame to see it all end so badly.

We are working on "friendship" and he does talk to me about stuff, but I don't confide in him much.

I have met a LOT of great guys along the way and grown tremendously over the past 8 months. What I have learned, could only come from experience, and I know I'll go on to a better life one day.

I am now learning about dating all over again. Relationships, falling in love that first time after the divorce, that was a hard one. Unfortunately , the feeling wasn't mutual so I'm out here again.

I believe in saving a marraige if at all possible, and wish all those who are trying the best. I also believe sometimes, its just gone too far to save, in my case, and I try to make the best of a bad situation.

April 9, 2001 I was reading this today and decided to give it an update. I was officially divorced in October of 2000. I have been dating someone for 7 months now, and I believe I have fallen in love. Sometimes I am doing great, other times, I still have bad days. Looking back , I realize now that I dated way too soon after discovery. Possibly, out of revenge, lost my mind, I don't know, but when I compare those days to where I am now, I know it was too soon. Hindsight is a great thing, but what else do I do with it?

I now get along with my exH. He is OK now that I have a bf and I get along with OW for the sake of my kids, but I don't feel good about it all the time. Its all just way too complicated STILL but I'm hanging in there.
Prayers and hugs to all,Dana

posted August 28, 2000 02:28 PM            

I am old enough to know not to tell just anyone who asks how old I am. I think my mental age is about 28. Doesn't work with the real numbers in my life though. I can easily pass for substantially younger, though. I am the betrayed. I think I am the one who has survived in all-around better shape emotionally though I did get the bad end of the deal financially.

I met the man I thought was the love of my life when I was 18. We were married 3 years later - after I hurried through college in those 3 yrs. I've joked that for our 10th anniversary, we went to the winter Olympics in Calgary, for our 12th anniversary I got pregnant (very planned) with the first child, for our 15th anniversary I had the second (very planned) baby, and for our 17th anniversary he announced he wanted a divorce. Sadly, it's not a joke.

Yeah, we went to counseling. The same guy met with both of us separately as well as together. (Nothing like having to spill your guts to someone you knew and could have had a crush on in college but he did really good work on me.) Before I met with counselor the first time, x met with him and told him that his job was to convince me that there was life after divorce. Did I ever have a fair chance to save marriage? No.

The truth is something like this. I grew up with a father who was unavailable emotionally. He had been an unloved, unwanted child and never developed the emotional health required to have a good emotional relationship with anyone. My mother admits she married him to get away from her mother since he happened along at the right time. That makes sense as I never could figure out why the two of them ended up together. Therefore, I thought all men were, in their human-ness, hard to get along with. Fast forward a few years. And I think I married to escape my father.

X and I did date for three years before getting married but I honestly don't think he ever proposed. It just felt right. We just fell into the idea.

Moving right along, I think the contributing factors to the divorce were guilt and mental/emotional unwellness on x's part. I think there is a history of unwellness in his family - every woman born into the family in his generation, with the exception of one, is clinically obese; he has a cousin whose son was diagnosed as anorexic at the age of 13; need I go on? He said, in the last few days he was at home that he didn't want to marry me and did so only because he didn't know how to tell me before the wedding. This was the guy who date raped me the first time I ever had sex. He knew I didn't want to but that didn't stop him. His dad had travelled a lot and I think his mother was so codependent and did all she could to meet his dad's every whim and avoid all controversy.

On my part, I have Attention Deficit Disorder and have trouble controlling clutter. The only things x ever told me I did wrong were that I was late to most things and I was a bad housekeeper. It wasn't dirt it was clutter. Maybe I was guilty of putting children first but that would have happened because he was so emotionally unavailable. Yes, I would put my creative projects ahead of domesticity sometimes because other people stroked my ego when they saw most of them and my husband sure wasn't stroking my ego.

So, he took away my emotional, financial, and societal security and threw me to the wolves. And says he feels badly because he can't see his children as often as he wishes. Well, forgive me while I laugh.

The grapevine where he works told me that he had an interest in a woman with whom his work had him in frequent contact. When confronted with this he said it was true and that she was alone and had two children, no one to help her, her life was hard, he felt sorry for her, and he had a chance at happiness. He didn't know whether or not it would pan out but he had to take this chance. Did it bother him to do this to his children? Yes, but he had to take this chance at happiness. Gag me with a spoon. (Two years ago she married someone else.) It always struck me as odd that this man had been no more interested in sex than he was, at least for at least the last 10 yrs. He told me he had this other woman in whom he was interested and then asked me why I thought he was spending so long in the shower. I have no doubt that he was having an emotional affair and was in there engaged in self-abuse while committing cerebral adultery.

Funny part is that the night he told his sister that he was filing for divorce (I found out because I heard the conversation over the baby monitor in children's room), I threw him out of the bedroom. He started sleeping in the den with the dog. Six weeks later the dog died. Smart dog! I'd slept with him for 17 years. After 6 weeks, she preferred dying over sleeping in the room with him.

So, he moved out. 3 1/2 yrs later we got a divorce. Now in the 4 years the divorce took, I went through two pretty good bouts of depression. Getting a divorce, financial devastation, two preschoolers having trouble coping, son having real behavior and emotional problems. Life was a real mess.

There were times when I could see how someone could kill their young children and then themselves in order to escape. Children are out of their pain. You are out of yours. I could honestly see the appeal.

But I was lucky. I knew that God was with me and that He would, somehow, get me through. He would continually give me what I needed. Continually.

I used to think that if you prayed hard enough and had enough faith, God would rescue you. But I don't think that anymore. You get the strength you need to face the challenges you encounter. God has given us the ability to choose. Sometimes we choose wrongly and other people suffer as the result of our choices. In that case, God doesn't even get what He wants. Look at Noah. Look at Adam. Lots of biblical examples of God having to get a Plan B. So, sometimes we have to get a new plan too.

So, I used to spend my time trying to be the domestic servant of an always taking - never giving - man who had no words of praise for me. Then I discovered that I could find answers, with true God-Father, to transform myself into someone who saw and could project happiness and joy.

I am Cinderella!!

[This message has been edited by cinderella (edited August 28, 2000).]

posted September 12, 2000 12:51 PM            

O my Husband, how can you stand there
Drinking all that beer so strong
When you have a loving daughter
and a wife, who suffer long?

Just don't hit me! Don't belittle me!
Don't try so hard to drive us off!
For you know that once your mood goes
You'll regret each word and deed.

I know your frightened, I know you're insecure.
You cannot stand to be revealed!
Just let us do for you and do not hurt us,
Before you know it, you'll be healed.

You see I love you, I'll never leave you!
If anyone would leave it's you.
Don't you know that I'm committed
To make the best of all we have?

Reading Harley, reading everything!
Learning all there is to know
Leaves me wondering, What's the limit?
Just how much d'you think I'll grow?

Now the OM's a distant mem'ry.
How could I have been so blind!
All he wanted was some action,
And some baskin' in my shine!

So I practice. Practice! Practice!
Night and day, it is Plan A!
Never busting, never slacking,
Never giving up on H!

***********************************
Second marriage. Six years.

posted December 20, 2000 08:44 PM            

H has changed his song and dance from what he first expected from the sepertion.
I know he is the classic textbook case I am just hoping everything I am reading and learning in counseling is going to pay off.

I love this man with all my heart and I know he loves me. Just need to clear the FOG. OW is just an obstacle!!!!!! Keeping the Faith

posted January 06, 2001 02:12 PM            

W and I have known each other for roughly 8 yrs and have been married for 6. We have a 4 yo son and I have a 12 yo daughter from a previous marriage.

My previous W was very cruel to me and our D emotionally and mentally which is what drove us apart. I would recommend counselling but she would say "It's no one's business but ours". After two and a half years of that I could not take it anymore and decided to follow through with what she had asked me for on several occasions, a divorce.

Me being the procrastinator, did nothing for several months and eventually met my current W through mutual friends. She soon figured out that my D had not taken place and was very upset. I came clean and got off my duff to get the thing taken care of. We managed to work through it all and stayed together for another 1.5 years. I got orders to the west coast which put us in decision time. We decided to get married and did so on 10 Dec 1994. Our life together was fun and exciting from the start. As time progressed my W would make comments to me that I was not listening to her pleas for me to change some of my habits, ie groping instead of cuddling, not working out, not wanting to sit with her in the evenings, not acting like I wanted to improve myself etc., etc.. She would cry after talking to me about these issues but sometimes I would not console her. I feel now that I have a better understanding of how I felt, I did not know what to do in that situation. Sometimes she would accept my apology and affection and other times she would say to leave her alone.

These particular things occurred several times over the next 4 yrs up to present. Both of us agreed to work on ourselves but my W never seemed to appreciate any advances I had made. I can honestly say I slipped on more than one occasion and did not listen to her. Sooner or later this built up and she gave up telling me. In the months preceding her A I felt we had been making some progress and she stated the same. I think too much damage had been done.

The week prior to the discovery of her A I sought help via counselling which she said she would attend and through the help of MB web site. W attended a supposed woman's retreat in Nov 00 but some of the details of that trip were out of the norm for her. I denied to myself that she would do anything wrong to me.

I talked to her about the trip and asked her what she did. Most of her responses were non-committal in nature. No real details were given. I was all for her making this trip as it was supposed to be for her to work on her self and what she needed. This is why I felt her responses were not in keeping with the spirit of the trip.

Dec 00 and she comes to me the week before our 6th anniversary to say she is going to go to a friend's cabin in the mountains on her days off. She layed out an elaborate story that the cabin belonged to a friend's family member and that the girls from work would be heading up to it over the week. It wouldn't cost anything but gas to get there and food while she was there. She had bought tickets for us to go to a dinner with friends on the Sat before our anniversary, the end of the same week. She said we could celebrate our anniversary and my birthday the same night. I went with a couple of friends for a beer on the Friday and came home later than normal to find her very angry at me and I later found out her and her mother had a row that night as well. She did not want to go with me on the Sat evening though we spent 70.00 on these tickets. Sat afternoon when I returned home she was still mad. I was appologizing profusely but to no avail. When I got up in the morning she woke and asked me where a sleeping bag was that she would be using for her trip. I asked her when she was going and she said "this afternoon" I pleaded with her that it was our anniversary and I would like to take her out to dinner that night. She said she didn't think I would want to do anything with her so she was just going to go on her trip. She left that afternoon and left me with my thoughts. I did not feel good about the whole thing at this point and told her when she called that I would like to talk to her about some things. I first of all apologized for my behavior and said we should seek some counselling and she agreed. I asked her pointedly if she was seeing someone and she denied any involvement by saying "when would I have time". I took that as somewhat strange as she had been away with someone whom I didn't know and to places where she said there was no phone to contact her at. This is where my intuition as her H took control and I started to get really worried.

Some other small signs appeared as I focused more on what the problem could be. I noticed she was working out more and wearing nicer underclothes. She even asked me to wear a condom when we made love saying that it could be dangerous at the moment. I found this really disturbing because she never requested that before and I know her cycle had just finished. I noticed a PO box key on her key ring as well. She also acted strangely while fiddling with her cell phone one night. She hid the screen from me as she went through some function. Odd for her... I got on the web and found MB and read the basic concepts pages and printed the EN and LB questionaires. I filled mine out and asked her to do the same. She never did any of it until after discovery. Only afterpleading with her did she fill out the EN list.

Now I really felt there could be something going on so as I continued to try and work on my own misgivings, I attempted to see if I could prove or disprove an A. The power of the internet gave me a way to log all activity on our home PC. The first day it was on I found some e-mails that I shall have a hard time forgetting. She had been e-mailing her lover from our home and had agreed to call him that very night. I felt as though I had been gutted with a K-Bar!!

Her mother was there and in a state of complete and utter devastation, I showed the e-mails to her mother and asked if she knew about this whole thing. She said she did not but had her suspicions that something was going on. I confronted my W about it when she got home from the PO and she was dumbfounded. We went and discussed the matter where she admitted to the PA. She would not say who, where, what, how etc., etc.. I did not do a very good job of no LBing but finding out was the single most emotionally devastating time in my life. I had not cried a single tear since I was a small boy but I cried a flood that night and the next 2 weeks. I still cry.

I told her that I could forgive her and over time, the memory would fade. I expressed to her in every way possible how much I love her and how much I wanted to work this out. She has still not decided whether or not she wants to try.

We started out staying together in the same room but she kept saying a separation is what we should do. I said that would be very difficult because of our son and financial situation. After several days I could not take the silence and indifference of it all and started to talk to her. She did not want to talk about it but I pushed and pushed. I have recently realized this is LBing so I have settled down now. I have moved into our spare room as well. Through all of this I am still waiting for the base counsellors to call and give us an appointment. She then tells me she doesn't want to attend counselling because she doesn't want to make a half-hearted attempt only to back out after a short time. I told her I respect that opinion but we should still seek professional help on our own. So far, I have been to the Chaplains office who gave me the Harley book "SAA" and some comforting words. I have also been to the counsellor's office one time. I got W to begrudgingly agree to attend on her own next week. I continue to get on MB and gently suggested W do the same. She said she is not into it. I am so fearful of losing my one true love that this is consuming me totally. I can't bring myself to stop searching for clues or evidence or whatever you call it. She continues to lie to me up to this day which kills me the most. That and the fact that she doesn't want to try to make things better. I feel I have ruined her but I have a strong faith in God and my own standards which will hopefully help me make it through this. I want to be her H and our son's F with all of us together so much it hurts terrible. I appreciate all the support this site gives. It is important to me to know there are others out there who care.