posted January 16, 2001 09:20 AM            

We fell in love, and I got pregnant in July of 1998. We moved to WA state to handle my late father's estate in August 1998. His alcoholism reared it's ugly head in full force at this time up until June 1999. I was able to confirm one EA/PA from that time before we were married w/a co-worker. She wanted him to leave me and be with her so that she wouldn't have to live with her parents anymore (she was a 22-year-old divorcee, drug addict, bisexual, with numerous warrants for her arrest in King County). When he came home from the bars, I would find numerous phone numbers in his pants. I suspect another possible EA/PA with a bartender at his local dive. He claims that our upcoming wedding (August 1999) and his nervousness about becoming a father triggered the EA/PA with the Skanky, Loose, Ugly Tramp (whom we'll call SLUT for short!) EA/PA with SLUT lasted from (approx) February to June. Our son was born in March. Official D-day for this affair was November 19, after finding a videotape of SLUT playing with our son in our apartment, and calling her saying I had an STD (I didn't, but I was sure enough of their A to take the gamble to trap her.)

H calmed down with drinking after our marriage - things were going well until my business trip to Dallas, Texas in August of 2000. He was back out at the bars every night, he claimed he was at a friend's house, but when I called that friend from Dallas, he had no idea what I was talking about. I came home, did some investigating, and learned that he had been out with a woman named Tina (she said he took her for a walk on the beach by our house - he says they just "talked" on the tailgate of his truck). Tina wouldn't admit to PA, but says that "something" happened between him and a woman named Cassandra one night. H denied Cassandra's existence, then later said that she tried to pick him up, he said that he wasn't interested, and that was that.

That wasn't good enough for me, so I packed my bags and S and I moved in with my mother. H has A with the Roseanne Barr lookalike (he says they came close to sleeping together but didn't, yeah, okay!) I went out on a couple of dates with another man, they got a little physical, but we didn't sleep together. H and I reconciled after a couple of weeks, but the damage was already done.

posted January 16, 2001 04:24 PM            

I'll divide this up into two sections, History and Recent.

History

We met in Sept., 1988. She was engaged to a guy who was over seas at the time. I knew about her engagement and didn't pursue her (although I was very attracted to her). But she started hanging out with my college crowd and without trying, we fell in love (meeting alone for long wonderful conversations, and yes a kiss or two). He came home in December of that year. I thought she was trying to decide between the two of us. I told her at that time that I cared for her, but had only known her for a few months. I wasn't ready to propose marriage. I told her that I thought she needed to decide what she wanted (or didn't want) in her relationship with the other guy, and if that decision was that he wasn't for her, we could date and see where our relationship led. But she should address that relationship first. She decided to go with the other guy and they were married in Oct. of '99.

We remained friends, but didn't see each other much after their wedding (which I sang in, go figure). After a year, they split up and we started dating. We were married in '93.

We had 2 beautiful girls in the first 3 years of marriage. Around year 5 I was going along happy as a lark. That's when she first told me that there were problems. She said she hadn't been happy for a few years. I was floored. I thought all was great. We started marriage counseling. I tried to change some of the things she had problems with (or at least the things I was willing to see in myself) like my weight/health, my domestic support (taking care of the house and such) and my attention to her. I feel like I made big strides, but it wasn't enough. She had a secret relationship with the male side of a couple we were becoming good friends with. No sex, but meeting in secret, kissing, that sort of thing. It goes deeper than that and I clearly played a big part in helping that to happen, but I spare y'all the details. Just note that I really screwed up. I should have seen this coming and could have made the situation better, but I was stupid and wasn't thinking in the best interest of my wife and my marriage. At one point, she decided to move out (on her own). We called it a trial separation. She made arrangements for an apartment and even drove to her sister's place (a few hours away) to pick up a bed she bought from her. When she got home from that trip, she had a change of heart. The girls and I had decorated the house for Halloween, and when she pulled up to the house and saw all of the decorations, she says she got an overwhelming feeling of home. That night, just after we went to bed, she told me she wanted to stay (another great chance for me to fix me, but I didn't). God am I kicking myself.

We continued in marriage counseling for a while, but didn't put anywhere near the effort that was needed (extra time, reading self help/marriage books, using the new communication tools and so on). Things were better, but not where they needed to be.

Recent

About a year or two ago, she met a guy on the internet (he's on one side of the country, we're on the other). She was looking for a photographer who could give her some ideas on how to get into that business. It quickly became a good friendship. Early last year she said he wanted to come out to meet us. I was reluctant (in fact it scared the hell out of me, but I didn't do a very good job of letting her know that), but I didn't want to deprive her of a friendship. He's been out here a couple of times, we've been out there a couple of times. When we first went out there, he offered to shoot some pictures of her. All was fine until he asked me to run upstairs to get something. When I came back, I sensed that something had happened. Later that night I asked what had happened. She said that she offered him a hug, and he kissed her. She said she backed him off right away. I wanted her to end the relationship. She told me that it was a one time, little thing. She also told me how important their friendship was to both of them and that she thought it would be unfair to end her friendship with him over one little kiss that meant nothing. I told her I'd do my best to support/allow her friendship (which I never was able to do) but that I didn't want them to ever spend time alone together. She seemed to reluctantly agree. I now believe that she's in and "emotional affair" with him. I don't believe they've gone physical (I could be wrong), but I do believe that she's getting her emotional needs met by him. And I now know that if I had been better at meeting her ENs, we'd be a lot happier and her relationship with him may have never happened.

We'd been going along in a so/so relationship until about mid 2000. She started going farther and farther into withdraw. She started seeing a counselor around summer time (times and dates may be off, my memory sucks which is one of the things I have to work on for her...and me). The only thing she'd tell me about her counseling was that she was working on herself, not our marriage. In Oct. we went out to his part of the country a wedding at which he was the photographer. I made an ass of myself. I was very withdrawn and acted like a spoiled brat (big time LBing). Then in December, the sh-t hit the fan (it really hit well before that, but now it was hitting me). She told me that she was going to spend the New Year's weekend with the OM (at his house on the other side of the country). I found the MB site on December 11th and have been in Plan A ever since.

I have had the opportunity to meet with her counselor. She seems to be a great lady. She told me that she believes in marriage and thinks there's plenty for my W and I to build on. She's asked my W to bring me in several times, but my W says she's not ready for that yet.

So, for now, I'm in Plan A. I've learned a lot about how I've contributed to the situation we're in. I didn't see that before. All I saw was a confused, selfish wife. Now I see that I've been just as, if not more, selfish, and lazy, and apathetic. I'm fixing all of that. It's not easy. My problem has always been that I don't want to find anything wrong with me. Well guess what! I'm somewhat screwed up. Don't get me wrong. I really believe that I'm a good guy. I'm proud of the changes I have been able to make and I don't blame myself for all of our problems. But I finally understand that I need work...and help and that I do hold a ton of the responsibility for my beautiful wife's unhappiness. She deserves better. My hope is that by taking a long hard look at myself, by listening to her, really understanding how I've hurt her, and changing my behavior and treatment of her, we can get to work on our marriage. I truly believe that if she'll take a chance (she's told me that the reason for her withdraw from me is that she doesn't want to get hurt again, I don't blame her) we can have the most amazing marriage in the world.

Best to all,
------------------
Bill
~~~~
Remember the truth that once was spoken, "To love another person is to see the face of God."

posted January 25, 2001 08:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NSR:
[B][/B]

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I am 42 and my H od 42 has a lover of 32 for a year and a half (she has never been married, is well known for having more lovers, abortions and caused some marriage brakes; and WE were first to each other, ).
At the beginning (October 1999) we tried with counceling but it failed.
In July 2000 he bought me and my younger D (11) a new appartment and he and our older D (18) stayed in our family house. Until then we are separated ( in fact he moved on another floor of our family house in March) and we devided our financial matters but he doesn't fill for divorce.
He started to constantly live with his lover(he moved her into his house and she cancelled her rented apartment) and older D 5 months ago-Sept 2000 ( till then he slept every night in his house even when i was out).
He picks our younger D every weekend but they hate each other (D and OW). I am the whole year desperate and I only want him back to restore the family, I still love him so much, I am ready to forgive him everything only to come back. But he non-stop repeats he would never be back, he doesn't love me for more than 10 years, I didn't show him love for a long time, I was not enough interested in sex... and that he would soon fil for divorce., what I am terrible afraid. I already had an suicide attempt.
I have lost 60 pounds and to be honest I am now quite a good (not as she) looking., but my life has no sence any more.
My H is so ocuupated with the OW so she is even more important to him than our YD, and he is so long in that affair so I can't see the hope for me that he would be back to me: old, not so attractive, too much educated (MD, PhD) and obviously not enough good and gentle and nice in every sence (especially sex) for him. Even my OD refuses contact with me, she much more likes OW, cause she is more fun, does not control her, leave her freedom to do what she wants...
During this winter holidays he, OW and YD went skiing, and my OD spent some days with me and we finally became friends and all the misunderstanding disappeared. It seems he doesn't like that change.
How can I become interesting for him? I can't accept he left me forever
How to explain that he invited OW's parents into his house , and went to Christmas dinner to them? Is that a clear sign that he sees nop future with me. First he was worried with OW past but now it seems it doesn't matter him, nor the fact that half of our town has passed "through her".
Have you some smart advice or some good experience? I'll do anything to let him know that I can forgive and want a new better start, we both did a lot of mistakes , ran into business but evrything he made (the largest company in our county, the house) that we made TOGETHER started from zero, and now she enjoys. But I don't care about money i love him, I want restore my family what I lived for.

posted February 01, 2001 01:47 PM            

love my H so very much, but am so frightened of being betrayed...

H had placed a personal ad on the Internet a few months after we married. I had thought at the time that he was happy with me. In fact, his ad stated that he was "happily married" but wanted cyber/e-mail sex with "a special Lady" to fulfill his "Darker Side."

In hindsight, he did tell me while we were dating that there were "things about him I would never get to know." BUT, he was so kind to me...so uplifting, so intellectual, so caring...

D-day was July, 1999. I followed a hunch and hacked into his hotmail account, which contained a direct link to his ad.

We had a huge blowout fight. I threatened divorce. He went to a counselor for one visit. The C told him that he did nothing wrong, and that my continual depressions were more of a problem.

Once I heard that, I felt relief...Now I knew who the real problem was...it was me. I shaped up, bigtime. Things were great between us again. I quit snooping and got on with my life.

Then, a few months ago, I heard him call me by another woman's name in bed. A few weeks later, I found a pic of him with an longtime lady friend, hidden in his car repair manual. I kept finding little things, like xmas cards in his nightstand, long curly blonde hairs in his clothing and in his car, and a woman's name and phone # stuck in a book. Not all of these findings were discovered through snooping; I just happened upon them while going about daily business. None of the findings appear to be related, yet in my mind, the fear and depression are building up to an intense level.

My H admits to hiding anything that he thinks might trigger a depressive and/or accusatory reaction in me. To some extent, I can see why he feels that way. But I wish he were less self-protective. Because now I have very little trust in him, and my paranoia is running rampant.

We're at an impasse now, communication-wise.

In fact, when I question ("interrogate") him, I really don't even want to hear the answer. I explain it away myself.

I know these issues are small potatoes compared to what many of you are experiencing right now. But I can relate to severe betrayal, and I am highly sensitive to it because of my history. (My first H physically abandoned our YD and I after 8 years of marriage to be with another woman, the first in a loooong string of women. For months before he left, he would stay out all night every weekend drinking, drugging and who knows what else. Every subsequent relationship for me was characterized by betrayal and lies of a significant nature.)

I am trying to figure out why I attract this kind of pain, and trying to quit dwelling on it. Or is it some form of double-bind communication that is bringing on the pain....I don't know how to find out the truth, and am probably too afraid to find out anyway.

Lately I'm addicted to this board and another similar board (spending two to three hours per day) which I'm afraid isn't helping my mental state.

I know I need to get out in the sunshine, lose some weight, make some friends, be a better mom, develop a relationship with God, and appreciate my H for all of his fine qualities.

posted February 18, 2001 04:40 AM            

Over time, as I experienced her anger and problems which I could not help her with, I emotionally withdrew. I wasn't totally aware of it, and I now realize I was unwittingly also following patterns from my FOO.

More recently, we also had a lot of conflict related to my desire to change careers (from accounting). At the time I was working full time and taking night classes, planning to apply to graduate school in Computer Engineering. Eventually, I concluded that it was better to seek certification as an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer), as it could be done much more quickly and offered similarly strong career prospects. That's what I'm doing now, with a completion date around the end of March.

Anyway, my wife wound up having an EA which became a PA about a year ago with someone where she was working, and told me almost immediately after it became physical. I Plan A'd, and over a few months won her love back. Eventually, she came to me in tears, said she had fallen back in love with me and didn't want to lose me, but had to come clean in that the A had continued intermittantly for several months after she first told me. At this time I had also felt that I was beginning to reconnect emotionally with her.

Shortly thereafter, she had a manic episode which required her to stay in a mental hospital for a week (appeared to be Bipolar I, if you know about bipolar disorder. It's what was formerly called manic depressive illness). My interpretation now is that she's probably Bipolar II, the less severe one, but taking Paxil sent her into a mildly manic state when she had her affair (we didn't suspect Bipolar at the time). Later, she had quit the Paxil without consulting her doctor, then started taking the Paxil again and had the full blown bipolar episode. She had also had an episode with paranoia and loss of contact with reality about 10 years before, which we had attributed to PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder).

Basically, in the 6 months or so since her hospitalization, she spends much of her time away from work in bed, depressed, and often makes little or no effort to relate to me or the kids. This is not entirely new, she's done this before at times. I have sympathy for her, but am frustrated by her passivity with regard to changing and getting better. She does take both an antidepressant (recently switched back to Paxil) and another medicine (Depakote) to combant manic tendancies.

Eventually, try as I might, I began to feel withdrawn emotionally. I feel that I've basically gone through a mourning period over the "loss" of my marriage twice now, once when I found out about her affair, and again in the last few months. I think I also finally allowed myself in the last year or so to feel the pain from the problems throughout my marriage.

I came to the point of questioning how well we were really suited for each other in the first place, whether she would ever make the effort to get well, and just wanting out. However, I wanted to have done all I could before making such a decision final, so I kept trying. I'd try to meet some of her needs when she let me, and let her do the same for me when she would, in the hope of turning things around. I eventually was fairly bluntly honest with her about what I was feeling, and she does seem recently to be making some effort to change.

I want more than anything to have the kind of passionate, deep connection with a spouse that I now know is possible, and I know that I won't be satisfied to stay indefinitely in a relationship if I don't think it possible to eventually get there.

The next six months to a year will likely be decisive.

Steve

posted February 18, 2001 12:40 PM            

two went by and he was still calling her. He has once again begged to stay. I let him because there was no sex involved. claimed he was having a hard time letting go.

Our counselor basically gave up on us. said until H was willing to talk and open up it was useless. I have my own counselor. He will not go to one. we now have no marriage counselor. I am on Plan A and have read "surviving the affair"

He is talking alittle more to me, but only if I bring it up first. I am sad. His shift was changed and now instead of just seeing her for 10 minutes every day he will be working with her on thrid shift. I AM SCARED.

not sure what is going to happen. I wish he would read more here or go talk with someone. Hope it gets better.

posted February 19, 2001 11:01 PM            

8/25/01- update. Things are wonderful, but I will stress that it can be done with a partner who was initially very skeptical and unwilling to read, see a MC, or do much more than request that we push it all in the past. Example is the best teacher. Be the person you would like to be married to. Instead of fixing him, fix yourself.

posted April 14, 2001 03:26 PM            

I met my husband in 1986, our first week of college together. We dated (semi-engaged) 4 years (much of it long distance) and did not have sex because we were waiting for marriage. This fell to pieces when in 1989 he had sex with someone he met through his friends.

I decided to break up with him, he begged me not to leave and I stayed. He quit college, joined the Navy, and asked me to marry him as quickly as possible. We were married in Sept 1990.

His betrayal prior to our marriage caused us a lot of problems, mostly because I was expected to 'get over it' and he was tired of listening to me cry over it. If only I had known about the Harley's back then!!

Due to sexual problems as a result, his heavy drinking (I didn't know then that he was an alcoholic), and his long absences due to deployments, our relationship suffered a complete breakdown. I was miserable - in fact I can't ever remember being happy or fulfilled in our marriage - I seem to have always been waiting for some event or another to occur so we could start working on our marriage.

Money was always a problem. He spent more than we earned and I resented him for it. Much of his money was spent on booze. When I started tallying up the liquor purchases, I was able to add up $100 or more a month, NOT counting bar and restaurant tabs.

There may have been one night stands with prostitutes while he was on deployment overseas - at least my gut tells me that there was. I don't know. There was also another possible EA/PA with a woman in his squadron - he called me one night from Japan, hysterically in tears because she had aborted a baby (his?) that my H had asked me only a few days before if I would consider adopting with him.

We had 2 children early on, our oldest son born in 91, and the second son in 93.

He left the Navy in 95, and 4 months later, after we moved from the West Coast back to NJ to be near his family, I had a complete breakdown into depression. I don't mean the blues...I mean seriously dysfunctional, unable to carry on conversations with people, etc.

Unfortunately, my husband reacted by throwing himself into work, coming home in the evenings, locking himself in his office with a bottle of wine or whisky, and downloaded porn or played video games.

I wandered the internet til 5 or 6am most nights, slept a few hours, and got back up to spend the day on the computer. My internet life was more "real" and comforting than my real life, and I couldn't face reality.

I do believe that there was at least one EA during this time. A former co-worker of my H's was constantly calling and lying to me about who she was and what she wanted with my husband. It ended when I called her and told her to leave my H alone.

No one intervened - my inlaws thought I was lazy, my H's friends encouraged him to dump me and move on...no one thought to find out what was wrong...

Our children were so seriously neglected that had social services been alerted, they would have taken them from us. It was awful.

One day, I finally hit bottom. I woke up and realized that I wanted to die. If my H had been a responsible and good father, maybe I would have killed myself. But he wasn't. He was horrible to them, and horrible to me, and I didn't know who would care for them. So I made a decision to get better. But I didn't know how. But just the act of deciding meant that things started improving.

I got on anti-depressants, started to feel better, then my 19 year old sister died in a hiking accident. My H lost a $250k a year contract with a major firm in the area, due to a merger. The next year was hell, because he went to work at a job that turned to a nightmare, and I was struggling with my depression and grief over my sister. We turned in on each other, ripping each other to shreds rather than supporting each other.

It was then that I picked up a book called "Codependent NoMore" and read about myself on every page. I called my mom and said, "Mom, I think I'm married to an alcoholic." And to which she replied, "I've wondered that, and I'm just learning about alcoholism myself because MY dad was one, and I'm learning that me and your dad may have passed on those dysfuncions to you."

I took the kids and fled to WA state to live with my parents for the summer of 98. At my mother's suggestion, I started Al-Anon (thank you God) and also started therapy.

At the end of the summer I decided to go home and try to save my marriage. We did do some joint counseling which went no where. Unfortunately, things devolved into my struggling to work on myself and keep house and deal with all of the issues surrounding my neglect of everything and nonstop fights with my husband who resented my Al-Anon meetings and felt outraged that I thought he was an alcoholic. I slept on the couch most nights because I couldn't bear to be touched by him - because most nights I'd catch him downloading porn and masturbating. This wasn't an occaisional thing...it was an every day thing.

Finally, I was ready to separate. I told him I was moving out with the kids, and he begged me to instead help him to buy a house, and that if I did, he would go to counseling with me and we would put our marriage first.

With this promise, I threw myself into getting us moved and getting our first 'owned' home set up. We moved in Sept 99. For the first time in our marriage I could paint, fix, decorate, and no one stood by telling me not to waste my money on a rental!!

Sept, Oct, and then November went by. I wanted to start counseling. My H started disappearing every weekend. I cried, I threatened, I pleaded, I did everything I could think of to get him to stay home. He refused. The porn continued, the drinking continued, the spending continued.

I began to work very hard on my 12-step program at this point. I began trying to learn to detach, to be kind to my H, and to let him go. I started looking very hard at my own contributions to the mess of our marriage, and I started trying to correct my faults. In MB terms, I was doing a plan A.

In January I began to realize he was probably having an affair. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. I worked on me. At the end of the month, he disappeared with our son for an entire day. That night he walked into the house, son standing there, and announced "I got an apartment".

The next day, our very upset 8 year old told me that he had a new best friend but Papa told him not to tell me about it. I sat my son down and said "sweetie, any time you are told to lie to me - thats when it's most important to come tell me!"

His new best friend was the son of a nice woman that he and papa spent the day with and went to dinner with.

Well, all hell broke lose, but they were 'just friends'. So much for my plan A!! (I didnt know about MB yet). A week later I found a cell phone message from this woman gushing "Hi Babe, your wallet fell out of your pants"...

So in Feb, after 9 years of sheer hell, I told my H that he had to move out until he got help for his problems. I wanted him to go to therapy, go to parenting classes, and to pull his act together. I told him that he was destroying me and the kids, and I couldn't let that go on anymore. I told him that he could come home when he had gotten help.

But I didn't know that on the other side...his OW was encouraging him to move out and move on with his life.

Regardless, we spent the next month before his move date at peace with each other. I let go of my anger and resentments - and just tried to love him. We spent many hours together watching moves, smoking cigars together, and just having fun. We had the very best sex of our entire marriage that month.

He moved out on March 1st, 2000. On March 14th, I discovered that I was pregnant! On March 19th, after standing me and the kids up on his birthday, he told me that our marriage was over and he had no intention of getting help - that I was the crazy one, and that he was incredibly happy now that he was away from me. I was also accused of lying about my pregnancy to manipulate him (he was in the bathroom when I took the test, but I supposedly used sleight of hand to pour my pregnant SIL's urine on the tester!).

It wasn't until mid-April that I discovered hard proof of his affair. We had yet another riproaring fight. In May I took him with me to the OBGYN so he could hear the baby's heartbeat. No more accusations of lying - now I was told that I had gotten pregnant to trap him.

During these months I struggled with my Al-Anon sponsor to learn to detach, to let go, and to treat him with respect whenever I saw him.

In June after dealing with his threats to take me to court to allow him to see the kids at the OW's house...I told him that I was filing for divorce. That I could not be married while he was with another woman. He said fine. 2 weeks later he came and told me that he had broken it off with the OW, and that would I please hold off on the divorce until after the baby was born. He wasn't asking to reconcile, he just wanted to find a way to have a friendship with me, help me through the rest of the pregnancy, and to learn to be a better dad.

I agreed, with the condition that there were NO other women, no dating, no girlfriends. I told him I could not tolerate being married to him for any longer any other way.

A month went by peaceably....until he diseappeared for 4 days and I discovered that he had taken the OW to Cape Cod. The next week I discovered emails at his office that detailed the OW's plan for his divorce of me. It outlined for him how to hide his income from me, how to get the kids away...etc.

I cut contact with my H immediately. On August 26, I retained a lawyer. On Sept 6 I turned in my paperwork. On Sept 13th, I signed my divorce complaint. On Sept 15th (our 10 year anniversary) I ended up with severe nerve damage in my back and left leg as a complication with my pregnancy. I was forced to call my H for emergency help from the hospital.

And at that point, I had no choice but to accept his help. I was disabled, in severe pain, and had 2 months to go in my pregnancy. We called a truce.

He came almost every night to help me with the kids (sorta). We agreed to disagree on everything else and to refrain from discussions.

We got along very well...he swore that he had broken off with the OW again because of her objections to his helping me. With the understanding that she was out of his life (she was an OB nurse, and I had found out that he was telling her details of my pregnancy), I allowed him to be present at the birth of our daughter.

I found out much later that this was a lie. He called her the very next day.

Anyway, (gawd this is getting long-winded) he continued being very involved in our lives (me and the kids) coming home almost everynight to sleep in my bed with the baby. In December, as I started recovering, we started to talk about possibly reconciling. It was then that I found MBs, and I asked him to read the basic concepts. I asked him, "If you could be convinced that we could be happy together, would you stay?" And he said, "Yes, absolutely." He agreed to try MB, and told me to go ahead and make an appt with Steve Harley.

And the very next day...I got a phone call from a co-worker of his, looking for "ow". He'd just started a brand new job as VP at a new company, and no one knew about his marital status. I discovered from this co-worker that my H had taken his OW to the company Christmas party. The co-worker was completely embarrassed, not knowing that my H was married, and was just wanting to return some items that the OW had left at the party. I had asked my H to take me to this party, and he had sworn spouses werent allowed.

So yet again, I immediately cut contact. He responded by storming my answering machine with pleas. He called his mother in desperation and told her that the last few months had been wonderful and he didnt want to lose his family. He told me on the answering machine that he realized that he loved me, he wanted our marriage and that he would do whatever it took, including going to AA. He apologized over and over for his stupidity with OW, and promised no contact.

Recovery - so I thought. But the backpedalling happened within 24 hours. He refused to go to AA, told me he'd work on the marriage but that he didn't need AA. So I gave in, I was so desperate for my marriage to survive.... We kept our appt with Steve Harley. I started plan Aing and trying to follow Steve's advice and doing whatever i saw in the MB books that applied to my situation.

3 months went by, he quit seeing Steve, and things deteriorated btwn us. Lies and disappearances started occuring. Steve told me in January to go to Plan B, but I didnt have the courage to do it. But I pondered it daily. I worked on a plan B letter, and worked on trying to fix myself. I wrote my H a long heartfelt apology for all of the terrible things I had done to him during our marriage. He later told me that all of my Plan A, my apology, my love letters, my admiration, my openness to him sexually, was all a giant manipulation.

I started praying about Plan B. I asked God to send me a sign. The next day I found a message on my answering machine of him driving a giggling woman home at 1am. He swore he was just helping a woman with a broken down car. I cut contact after sending him my plan B letter. Plan B lasted all of one week. He fought it hard too. He finally showed up at the house, and swore that I had "won", he really wanted to commit now, etc - but still, the refusal to go to AA.

I told him I'd have to think about his promises, because I was really exhausted and not ready to get back on the roller coaster. During those next couple of days, I prayed and thought. A week later, he was still saying that he'd give me everything I wanted...and so I really started to give in...BUT, I went to his work to get some money from him. In his car, I found an email detailing his arrangements for a date with a woman, the same night I had gotten that voicemail. I confronted him, and he swore that he had done nothing wrong because there was no emotional attachment with her and he had never emotionally reconnected with me. Huh!?!

Again he swore he was ready to commit. I called Steve Harley and told him this latest development, and Steve told me that my marriage was over. That he could only recommend that I re-open my divorce to protect myself legally. Steve stayed on the phone with me late into the night that night - he's really a fantastic man and marriage coach. There was nothing to be done, unless my husband got treated for alcoholism - and Steve told me that even if my H started immediately into AA that my H would make so many mistakes, and do so much more damage to me, that our marriage wouldnt have a chance. At this point, I knew in my heart that Steve was right, but I didn't want to accept it.

I threw out plan A then, and love busted big time. I broke into his cell phone account, started pouring over the records. I started contacting women, and discovered 3 different women he had dated while we were 'in recovery'. He HAD kept his word about the OW, her number wasn't on there. After I confirmed woman #3, I stopped checking. I'm sure I would have discovered others. I was just too sick to my stomach.

I called my lawyer and had my H served. It's really over. I'm actually at peace with my decision.

I love my H with all my heart. I really do. But I also know that I can not be married to him like this, and the work I have done with Al-Anon, MB and Steve Harley have taught me what marriage and love and relationships are really about. I never had a real marriage at any point in time.

posted April 15, 2001 05:35 PM            

My husband and I had been married for 20 years when he had a brief affair with a woman in our church. I know...ouch!.... We had what I considered a good marriage, but we both needed to do some work and make it more of a priority. I was slightly depressed and not telling him about it....also thought I didn't love him any more and didn't want to say the words out loud for fear of what they might cause. Unfortunately, silence had it's own pitfalls.

The ow was supposedly a friend to both of us....but actually was friend to neither. The were in an aerobics class together and began to talk. I believe it was innocent at first...at least on his part, but she was twice divorced and looking for husband #3. Was it always innocent for her? I don't know...I doubt it. Anyway, he shared his pain and fears about our marriage and she began coming on to him. The affair only lasted about 3 months with 2 physical encounters in a one week time frame. He ended that part himself, telling her he couldn't do it again. He swore that he never stopped loving me and never intended to leave me....so how could he have an affair. People in affairs become very good at rationalizing and compartmentalizing their lives.

Anyway, the ow told him they could "still see each other" and he fell for it. Affair continued mostly through emails for another 6 weeks or so with my husband becoming increasingly convicted by God. He was praying for a way out at the same time I was praying for God to help me love him like I should. The answer came for both of us when we had a special weekend at church and my husband stood before the congregation and cried, saying that he needed their prayers because he knew he wasn't where God wanted him to be.

The next night, while looking to see if he had read a card I left for him on his dresser, God led me...yes, you read that right....He led me to an email that He had led my husband to leave in the front of a drawer where I could easily find it. I, of course, went completely hysterical, but God was in control and had orchestrated the whole thing so that not only were my husband the ow both at church at aerobics, but the pastor and chairman of the deacons were also there at a meeting and our church counselor was at home and came to meet with us as soon as the pastor called. Yes, I confronted them at church.

To make a long story a little shorter.....I told my husband during the confrontation that he had to choose between me and the ow. (She was still there) He immediately...before I could even finish the sentence....said "YOU" very emphatically. From that moment he never looked back and was totally remorseful and repentant. He was also terrified that I would hear one wrong detail of the affair and leave him, so it took a few weeks to get it all out in the open. But we did and we have successfully made the journey to healing.

This all began in the fall of 1997 with the revelation and end of the affair in February of 1998. It was a hard road...even with all the things that were in our favor....and it has taken most of the 3 years for us to feel we have completely healed. But I promise those of you reading that figure and having your hearts sink....it gets better with every passing day. The first months...really the first year....of a committed recovery are very hard. But after you reach the one year mark, you are really working more on the new habits in your lives and moving past the memories rather than dealing with the constant pain. Keep in mind that a committed recovery is both spouses working together to rebuild the marriage. It takes both of you.

Why do I stay here? Because I remember how badly I needed to hear from someone who had successfully made the journey to healing. I needed to know that marriages do overcome this tragedy and people find happiness and normalcy again. I needed to know that trust is possible. So, I come here and offer what I needed myself to you who come after me.

It is a process and the process takes time, but it can be done. My "motto"....I'll never be grateful for the sin that came into my life, but I will always be eternally grateful for the way God revealed Himself and working in my life and my marriage. The journey is worth it!

posted April 16, 2001 10:54 AM            

A caveat first: My relationship with my ex-H is awkward now, and the feelings of DEEP LOVE I felt for him are truly gone. Do not misinterpret a distance to mean that I didn't love him fully and completely as I went through this process. If there is any question of the determination I had to repair what had been broken, simply do a search on my name -- I have over 2500 posts here - egad, now THAT'S embarrassing!

HISTORY

I was married in April, 1980 to a man that I have often described as the most gorgeous man on earth. I'd met him around six weeks before (we always did argue about whether it was six or eight weeks before) on a BLIND DATE. Yep, met the guy and married him in less than two months. I had just turned 21, he was 20.

We had three children together, one miscarriage -- and six affairs between us (he five, me one) before our final divorce date in the year 2000. A 20 year marriage down the tubes.

THE AFFAIRS

In 1987 (the 7 yr. itch?) he had what seemed to be "innappropriate friendships" with three women. You know how you KNOW, but you don't really *know* because they won't tell you the truth? That was me. Never mind that I got a sexually transmitted disease of some kind and he wouldn't go to the doctor -- and boy, was he in a fog the whole time! Did NOT tell me the TRUTH until 14 years later, but that's for later.

His first affair was with a teacher at the school he worked at. Her H came to me at a parent/teacher night and said that at the least, the "friendship" had gone too far. He had a plan to get her pregnant, and she did get pregnant -- and although my H had had a vasectomy, *I* got pregnant 18 months later, so I will always wonder if some kid will come to him someday and say, "Hey, you're my daddy"... Plus, I found a note from her that had a little drawing of her, and her baby, with the words "Little David" by it... so... um... you tell me.

His second affair was with the Pre-school teacher of daughter number two. She was a born-again Christian and they studied the Bible together. She was the only OW I met face to face. She said he "LOVED US BOTH"... nice, eh?

Number three was another teacher at another school -- and theirs was strictly an emotional connection. They planned to meet in Las Vegas the following month, but I found out about it and he got worried and stopped it.

Then came the silent years.

You know, there were many other "problems" looking back -- like the "pool woman" who galavanted around the pool with two pieces of material that barely covered her money-maker... and she came to me and told me to "keep my H away from her"... signs, signs, everywhere signs... but I had no self-esteem and I wanted to believe him when he said that "nothing happened"...

The year I turned 40 I went insane. I take full responsibility for this -- I had a short-lived, one hop in the sack affair with a co-worker. When I did, suddenly my H told me the TRUTH about his earlier affairs. He **said** it was to make me feel better... it didn't, by the way. He'd had physical encounters with the first two women, including oral sex both given and recieved... made me SICK, along with the fact that I hated myself for what I'd done to him with my affair.

I came here in August 1999, while still in withdrawl from my affair. I read, I listened, I posted, I learned.

My H came here too... he wasn't so willing to learn. He buried himself in a deep pit, and ultimately began to visit bars, get lap dances, and flirt (oh, and show me how he did it). He had a "meaningful hug" with a woman he met at the church he wouldn't let me attend, and said he fell in love with her... but in the end, he slept with another woman he met at that same church. He was introduced to her by "pillars" of the church, who wanted him to have a "real Christian woman" since I had cheated. He moved in and out of the house three times; would have been four, but he didn't leave one time because we thought I had cancer and he stayed.

I filed for divorce in May, 2000. Six months later it was granted. He says we never should have done it. I would have agreed for a long, long, time. Now, I'm just relieved. Yes, I will always *love the memory* of who he WAS when I loved him and he loved me. I no longer love him as anything more than the father of my children (and that says A LOT, he will always have my love and respect for that)-- and the man who saved me from myself at age 21.

The divorce was final in November, 2000.

THE PRESENT

My ex-H is still with his last OW, and is not really happy, but not especially sad anymore either. He lives with our children, two of whom are adults, and our son, who is 16, going on 17.

I met someone on these very boards. It was awkward, yes, and I don't suggest it for everyone. I met him via email one month before I filed for divorce, and in person a month after I filed. He had moved away from his home before I filed, and he could not file (due to laws in his country) until a year after seperation. His ex-W had a new man and he was living in her home with she and her children. Quite the mess back then.

Now, I am living with the man I met, and both divorces are final now. We are single, and living together. I never thought I'd "live together" with anyone... and it is weird to call this man my "boyfriend" when I'm over 40... we do have plans to marry.

FINAL THOUGHTS AND ADVICE

I BELIEVE IN MARRIAGE. I thought my marriage would last forever, and I expected to never experience infidelity in it.

If I had to do it over again, I'd go way back to the beginning and NOT MARRY him (the way I did) in the first place. Talk about impulsive!! I would have gotten to know him first and found out about his past. (He'd never had a girlfriend, he had horrid self-esteem, and he **needed** emotional support that I was ill-prepared to give him.)

I wish I'd had MB all those years ago! Instead, I blamed myself because I'd gotten so fat and bitter, and I perpetuated that as the years passed. By the time I realized there was a REAL PROBLEM, I had no idea how to tell him. He kept asking, I kept saying, "I don't know"... I would have TURNED TO HIM instead of some sickening putrid OM.

And, if I had to do the last two years over again, YES, I would have clung onto the marriage instead of getting out. I would have fought harder and longer. I was so very tired though, and the fifth OW was enough to rip me a very unwanted new hole in my heart.

And finally, the new relationship has turned out to be a balm for my heart and soul, but its beginnings were not good. Although our marriages were clearly OVER when we met, we *should* have waited to begin a relationship.

------------------
~Sheryl
(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)

Life is difficult.
The Road Less Traveled
~M. Scott Peck

posted April 16, 2001 12:06 PM            

Married my H in July 1989. I was 6 months pregnant with our first son. In September 1989, he started beating me. I, for some reason, adored this man. I guess it was too much co-dependency?

In 1992 we had our 2nd son and in 1997, we had our 3rd son.

Our life was a constant battle. H was/is an alcoholic and addict. I spent lots of nights wondering if he would come home or if he would come home and start hitting. Not much of a life for us.

On December 23rd, 1999, I discovered his affair. He moved out that night. I was completely devastated! I wondered how he could leae his family. I cried, screamed, vomitted, didn't sleep or eat...all the "normal" things. I found this site 3 days later and it saved me. I was seriously contemplating suicide. Had it all planned out.

I started Plan A. It worked to a degree because I stopped begging and pleading with him to come home. I also started taking St. John's wort. Talk about a life saver!!

I slowly came to realize that my marriage was far from normal. I was a classic example of a battered wife. I finally posted about it here and was given nothing but support. On that day, I decided to divorce my H. I no longer wanted to be married to a man who had so little respect for me or my children.

He's not what you would call a good father. He rarely pays child support, only sees or calls the boys on their birthdays or holidays, and basically pretends like "we" never existed. But that's ok, he's the one who will have to live with that for the rest of his life.

As for me, I'm an MB success. I've been working my first job for almost 1 yr and I've gotten 2 promotions since I started. Having my independence has made me a much happier and healthier person. I'm also not afraid anymore! I've found out that i can take care of me and my sons.

I do believe in marriage vows but in this situation, he didn't mean his vows when he said them. So...can I just make this marriage not count??

My divorce isn't final yet. Not sure what the hold-up is, and Ive never bothered to find out. I know in my heart that I've been released from my vows. There is only so much one person can do to make a marriage work.

posted April 16, 2001 12:52 PM            

So a co worker noticed his anger and befriended him. She was recently divorced and very needy financially and emotionally. They became friends. My H knew that he was doing something was wasnt right cause he hid the contact with her. In Sept of 99 I told him that he was too close to her and to back off the relationship. It did not happen.

The EA turned to a PA sometime in 2000.?? (According to my H) I turned up the heat in Nov 2000 and we went into full scale war in Nov - Jan. I was constantly monitoring him from Nov - Jan 9th.

On Jan 9th - I found him at her house. He of course left her house saying that he had gone there to end it. It was the day before her birthday. I knew he was lying. I did let him come home with me. I fired the co worker

He supposedly broke contact with her. I think he tried but couldnt see anyway out of our situation with my family and didnt think that he could be happy. Some time in January they reestabilished contact.

One February 16th, (the day before my birthday) he called me and basically told me he wasnt coming home. I talked to him for 40 minutes on the phone and then called him at the OW's house. I must have said things that were important to him cause he came home early afternoon on the 17th. We reconciled and he supposedly broke contact again. Several days later they reestabilished contact.

On February 25th, I walked downstairs to his office to see if he needed lunch and he was reading email from OW. It said how much he missed her and her him. How they would be toghether for ever and how much he loved her. I blew up in the office, called him names, punched him and kick him out of the house. Every one at work heard this and I am usually very professional.

He did not come home that night. I went out with a friend and got smashed. My mother kept the kids for me and my friend drove and picked up the kids that night and took me home. He started calling the next morning. Very curious as to where I went and what I did. Told him it wasnt his business anymore what I did. I turned off the phones and tried not to talk to him. He continued to call my phone and cell phone.

He did not come home the next night. He spent both nights at the OW house. The third night he spent at his parents. The fourth night he spent at our house and I went to my friends and then went out of town for the weekend. He told me that he was going to get rid of her over the weekend.

Sunday night I came home and he was still there. He talked about my family & I talked about her. We fought. She called and begged him to come to her. He did not. I slept on the couch.

Monday morning (3/5) I confrounted him with the taped phone conversations between him and her over the weekend. He said things on the phone that I would have never believed he would say. Such things as if he could get full custody of my kids. Hahh. She responded with you dont really want to do that. She also would beg him not to go when he wanted off the phone saying that you can spend a few more minutes with me the kids dont need you. I used that against her telling him that she doesnt want "his Kids" she has 3 of her own.

Monday morning my dad fired him.

He was home Monday when I got home. He wrote a no contact letter and I read it, and I took it and mailed it the next day. We changed our home number to unlisted and have an answering machine on our old number. He changed his cell phone number and the old one says no longer in service. We have caller id and private call rejection on both lines coming into the house. He no longer has email.

I dont believe that he is contacting her. I dont think she has contacted him. It will soon be 2 months.

posted April 16, 2001 01:27 PM            

My H accused me of having an EA in November 1998 and that is when I found MB (I posted under a different name until November 2000). I told my then fiance that an old friend found me via email and we were emailing periodically. I was honest and upfront about this. I'd known this married friend for almost 10years and we'd lost touch for about 3 years. Our emails were basically updates on our lives. I didn't think anything wrong about it since my then fiance remained in contact with an old friend with whom she had professed her love to him after she found out we were dating. My H said he knew his boundaries and could handle the friendship. I figured what was good for the goose was good for the gander. Anyway, my then fiance kept emailing this man negative things and he tried to go after his career. I stopped contact with this man since it obviously was not good for my relationship. My H has never given up contact with his exgirlfriend. I'm sure he still has phone contact with her.

At some point I found he'd answered an internet personal ad and was emailing with a local woman. We had a blow up and he said it was over. I believed him.

We broke our engagement and dating in September 1999 (we were supposed to be married Sep. 26th) then got back together in November 1999. He proposed to me (again) in December 1999. I told him I would only marry him if he could honestly say he was over what he perceived as my affair of the heart and he said yes - so I said yes.

We set the wedding for the end of January 2000. We scurried and set everything up. Meanwhile he talks about an older woman at work (said she was mom-like).

My H disappears one night 2 weeks before the wedding. Says he stayed overnight at a male friends house to watch a game. I believe him.

1 week before the wedding I pray for some sign about his new friendship. The next day I see her on-line and I introduce myself (no reason we can't all be friends). Turns out she's our age and she doesn't work with him - her sister does. They had met briefly 6 months prior and had maintained an email/phone relationship (she was 1 1/2 hours away from us). He supposedly went to see her face to face 2 weeks before the wedding (his disappearance) to end things, but one thing led to another and he stayed the entire night. EA turned PA.

She didn't know about me so she was just as hurt and crushed. She sent me many, many emails between them. He said he went to end things, but the emails after that meeting was filled with plans for their future. He said he would take care of her like no other man could.

We counseled with our pastor and decided to marry against his wishes. My H seemed very remorseful.

Our first year of marriage was one of sheer hell. I regret going through with the wedding. I found many secret email addresses with personal ads being sent to him and other women exchanging photos with him. I also found he was in married and flirting chat rooms.

He disappeared again in September 2000. He said he had a business trip to a city about 3 hours away. It turns out (I called his office) he never had a business trip planned. He told me lies that he really was a couple hours away - that he had a drug relapse and needed my help. He went back to AA.

A month later I found he was actaully out of state - went to Florida (we're in NY) to get away from the stresses at work. He still claims he went on a drug binge, but the AA meetings have stopped since the dust has settled.

I will never forgive him for the disappearance and continued lies. He won't tell me anything about the trip.

So I gave up on the marriage after he told me in November 2000 that he hadn't tried at all in our brief marriage. I started healing myself and not the marriage. I stopped asking him questions and I stopped really caring.

I'm assuming he came out of the fog in December 2000 since he apologized for the first year of our marriage being hell. He apologized for his disappearance but didn't get to the truth. He has been great - telling me his where abouts and being very loving.

I believe we started true recovery in January 2001. I feel his love. We don't discuss the last 1-2 years and how it damaged us. I don't get into it because I know I'll get lies.

I feel good about myself and I find I don't stress 1/2 as much about our marriage. The triggers are few and far between and our intimate life is better than ever.

Now if only our blended family could thrive as much (talk about stress and tension)!

Thank you for reading!

------------------
RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX

By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~

• "People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built."

• "No one takes advantage of you without your permission."