posted April 25, 2001 06:55 AM            

Lor,
There was a paragraph in your post that I printed out and I am going to keep it as an inspiration when the going gets tough. I have tears streaming down my face as I am writing this. Thank you so much. Here it is...
"There's no clearer path through this than doing what you believe is right...not the easy or quick way. Even the miracles can take some time. You've made a wise choice in realizing you can't control, or maybe even influence your wife's love, all you can be is the best husband, the best SHA, you can be."

Wise, wise words. That in a nutshell was what I was doing - trying to control what my husband did and how he felt because I wanted our marriage to work so badly. He's told me again and again that he needs to decide things for himself and that's the only way he can be the husband I want. I should have listened to him. I will now.
Thanks again to all for being there,
gen

posted April 25, 2001 08:52 AM            

When I read one of your updates I feel less alone. I search for the peace I know that you have found. Peace is a realistic goal isn't it? It is something we can achive ourselves and it comes from doing what you know is right.
Thank you again for reminding me.
I think of you and your wife often...you are in my prayers.

posted April 25, 2001 04:40 PM            

I wanted to respond to the question Siftedlikewheat asked: "Do you believe you will have the type of marriage God plans for you?" - excellent question.

My wife and I entered into our marriage equally yoked. She had just become a Christian prior to our marriage. As with most people, neither of us were skilled in how to make a marriage last.

Reflecting on events that lead to our problem, one key change in our relationship occurred when our first child was born. We now have four. I believe emotional and physical intimacy between us started to suffer - unknowingly. A child consumes a lot of your time and emotions. Keeping your mate at the top of any priority list is doable, but most of us succumb to the events that are taking up most of our time: children, work, home, etc.

Being unskilled in recognizing the danger signals of a marriage in trouble, some of us find ourselves in the midst of the worst possible emotional trauma one mate can inflict on the other. Since we can't control the feelings and actions of our mate, we must focus the attention on ourselves. If change is to occur, it must start with us. The easy path is to give up on the marriage without trying. The right path, which is rarely easy, is to open ourselves up to God's wisdom and direction and be the mate He always wanted us to be.

Whether our spouse "sees the light" is out of our control. I know I can not make my wife love me like I want to be loved. I know I can not make my wife desire me like I want to be desired. I can not make my wife honor and respect me like I feel I should be. What I can do is be someone who can be loved, present myself in the most desirable way I can, and live with integrity that is deserving of respect. The rest is up to her.

So, to answer the question "Do you believe you will have the type of marriage God plans for you?", I would say yes, as long as I am being the spouse He expects of me. The hard part is in realizing that God's plan for my marriage may not be what I desire. Peace is in accepting God's plan.

One of the most important things God has laid on my heart is to teach my children, especially my boys, how a man should love, honor, and respect his wife on a daily basis. That is part of God's plan for my marriage. Having gone through all of this, I now feel equipped in training them how to be a good marriage partner and how to recognize those danger signals before its too late.

May God bless each of you, and give you the strength the follow the right path.

SHA

posted April 25, 2001 08:33 PM            

quote:

---

"Do you believe you will have the type of marriage God plans for you?", I would say yes, as long as I am being the spouse He expects of me. The hard part is in realizing that God's plan for my marriage may not be what I desire. Peace is in accepting God's plan.

---

That is exactly what I meant - God's plan may not be what I desire. But He can use my marriage for my good. "He will accomplish what concerns me".

I remember the daughter of E. Elliot saying, "God doesn't desire my happiness, He desires my holiness". Isn't that a greater priority He has for us? Even as parents we don't give our children everything that makes them happy, but we do give them what they need (which might even be hard work), for their good. More than anything God is intending to mold us into His character. The fruit of our acceptance under His mighty hand is joy, which comes from the character He is building in us. In my own life, though it hasn't always gone as I would have liked, He has done mighty works in me, so that I do have joy and can live abundantly.

Surely it would be good and desirable if we and our spouse would live in the loving relationship God planned a marriage to be. But, having free will, each spouse doesn't always make choices to love. It seems you are saying, SHA, that your responsibility is the choices you make to love your wife as God intended, regardless of her choices to love you as a wife ought to. God will bless you for doing what is right.

posted April 26, 2001 09:40 AM            

It was so good to see your post. I don't know if you lurk at all, but I haven't been posting much either. I'm praying for you.

Rob/professorg:

Something that you said about the Proverbs 31 woman really struck a chord with me.

Don't know if you remember, but my h. WAS a believer, and now since his year-long PA at work 2 years ago calls himself "an agnostic who hopes it's all true".

When we married, it was with my understanding that we would go into some form of ministry together, in addition to his professional career. We went to Family Life Conferences, Marriage Enrichment classes, etc. He always nodded and agreed with everything. I thought that putting all my efforts into being "the Proverbs 31 woman" would keep him happy in our marriage.

Know what? She is an IDEAL, not a living, breathing person! I've heard excellent teaching on how Christian women should model themselves after her, by working on ONE quality at a time.

Otherwise, wouldn't it be fair to hold up the model of Jesus for guys as a measuring stick?

How discouraging it would be to live daily knowing you have such a high standard to attain,...you'd give up...right?

That's sort of where my h. is now.

He has told me that he realized from the beginning of our marriage that my idea of 'the perfect Christian husband' was unattainable -- Christ as my husband, or my husband as the Godly head of the home, -- so he started giving in to little temptations here and there, and eventually just gave it all up when OW suggested an affair.

Am I making any sense? Perhaps in addition to being prayerful, you could read "Beloved Unbeliever" by Jo Berry. It's out of print, but you can still find it. It's written somewhat gender biased, assuming that guys won't read about their marriages, but it helped me deal with my disappointment over his spiritual state at present.

Thanks to you both for all the help you've given me in the past,

Blessings and prayers,

lizzie smith/POGP/alias

[This message has been edited by alias (edited April 26, 2001).]

posted April 26, 2001 11:13 PM            

What I have written my sound harsh. It is not intended to be so. I have taken my lecturing tone which my W says that I revert to from time to time. I go there because I find that when my feelings are to much in control, I err which results in my being hurt along with the other parties being hurt. So please read it in the light of my sharing my deepest feelings which are black and white. I'm sure I haven't put enough detail to give the complete picture.

I have never told her that I wanted her to be the Proverbs 31 woman. I just want her to love Jesus the way she thought she loved the OMen that she committed adultery with. The goal is to say yes Lord which results in Him livng His life through us.

The only way to achieve being the Proverbs 31 woman or the H which God wants us to be is to let Jesus do it for us by our submitting to Him. Without Him doing it for us, it is impossible to achieve. We CAN'T do it, but He can. Am I the perfect H? NO!!!! Is He guiding my path? YES!!!! He is the reason why I understand why she did what she did. He is the reason I am able to forgive her. I can't take from her what He has freely given me and her. She chose to be selfish and keep His love rather than share His love.

The Proverbs 31 woman is as real as the ideal H: they both reside in Jesus. I don't expect my W to understand until she truly loves Jesus. When she truly loves Jesus, she will then be able to see that Jesus was talking to her through me. She is unwilling to see Jesus in me because she, as I do sometimes but much less frequent when compared to the past, listen to the lies that Satan has whispered in my ear.

It is difficult to discern when Satan is lying to you sometimes because he is the most powerful created being. He knows more than any other created being. He still has the powers God bestowed upon him. Yet, we have the Holy Spirit who talks to us continually. Yet, we ignore Him because we are to wrapped up in havng our own way at the detriment of others. I want to serve my W and all to whom I come in contact with whether in person or virtually.

God allowed me to go through this to help others through their pain. Hosea really endured what I have endured. When I study this book, I see how I am to do Gods will by feeling the pain that others are enduring so that I can have empathy for what they are going through. I really do feel their pain. I have gotten to the point where I can listen with empathy which is what is wanted most often. I used to want to slove the problem. Every now and then I still revert back to solving the problem. This occurs now primarily because I usually am feeling sorry for myself. God lets me know that He is still there and I come back to my senses.

I look for Jesus in her and others. When I don't find Him there, I say yes Lord use me to show them Your love so that they can be brought closer to You. It is God who opens a person's eyes. Just like He opened my eyes, He can open her eyes. I really do remember when I was a FOOL. But I am a fool no longer in His eyes. Yet, in the worlds eyes, I am sure I am thought of as a fool.
------------------
God Bless,
Rob
regilmor@swbell.net

[This message has been edited by professorg (edited April 26, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by professorg (edited April 26, 2001).]

posted April 27, 2001 06:18 AM            

hugs and prayers,

posted April 27, 2001 08:06 AM            

HEy brother, wonderful to see you again. I don't post much either. I check here occasionally. When an 'oldy' speaks the rest of the oldies come out of the woodwork. Funny huh? Wishing you well my friend. You're are still in my prayers. MY situation as not went as 'well' as yours, but it's out of my hands now.

Good Luck and God Bless

posted April 27, 2001 08:24 AM            

Paul,
Long time no hear from. I too usually drop in from time to time when I see us old timers. It is a shame that this is so rampant. Yet, the Bible says it will only get worse before He comes back.

posted April 27, 2001 08:44 AM            

That's for sharing your update. I keep a lurking eye out for all my old friends, always hoping to see happy updates.

I can only say one thing. Although you don't have the relationship you want to have with your wife, you do have so very many positive things in your life. You have your self-respect, a relationship with the Lord that is stronger, deeper and truer than previously, an intact family, the ability to directly influence your sons on how a man should be a great husband, and the list does go on. You have alot more here than many others. In NO WAY am I trying to diminish your situation, as I know how deeply you love your wife and want to have a deeper and more satisfying relationship with her. I am only trying to give you encouragement, that although you are suffering a huge loss on one plane of your life, you are enriched beyond measure on many other planes. Keep those blessings tight to your heart!

I know that you are a man of honesty, integrity and the highest of moral principles. Focus your time and energies on enjoying the blessings you do have. Never give up hope on the one thing that you don't have. God can soften even the hardest of hearts. You have an opportunity that some of us never had. You have your spouse still home and that gives you daily opportunities to show her what you are made of.

I know that God will continue to strengthen you on your quest. The journey is long and hard, but you are right, you can not lose by continuing to follow your heart and your beliefs, because you truly do believe this is the right thing for you to do.

Wishing you many bright and happy days ahead.....

Desiree

------------------
"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."

posted April 27, 2001 01:46 PM            

Another thing that made a difference was finding a note that had the name of a friend written on it that was now single because her husband, a minister, had abandoned their marriage. My H said that he had only made a note to ask someone how he might get in touch with her to find out how she had made it through her ordeal, but that was a signal to me that I might soon have more to regret that I had ever even imagined, that I not be able to go back if his attention turned in another direction, and rightfully so. He was not looking for that at that time, but he had made it clear that he did not want to spend his life alone if I left.

posted April 27, 2001 03:59 PM            

Sorry to hear things aren't going as well as you and all of us had hoped. There is still hope though as long as you are together. As you said, maybe someday her heart will soften.

Hang in, and God Bless.

posted April 28, 2001 10:32 AM            

Kanga,

To answer your question "what is preventing you from having the marriage you want to have?" you must first realize that my wife has not taken the steps to heal our marriage that you have to heal yours. The fact that you are willing to go to counseling and that you simply desire to do what is necessary to have a better marriage with your husband is a huge step that many WS's never take.

My wife won't go to counseling. She won't read any book on healing the damage that has taken place within her. The choices she made damaged her inner being. Her strong will is keeping her from healing that damage. Even though there is no longer contact with the OM, I know she holds on to thoughts that continue to torment her.

My wife has made it clear to me that she loves me but is not in love with me. Because of what has happened, she can't find physical desire for me anymore. We are good friends. Probably better friends than we have been in our 20 years of marriage. But the physical intimacy in our marriage has been lost. And since she isn't willing to seek outside help (her strong will) our marriage suffers in that area. That is what is keeping me from having the type of marriage that I desire.

I have been at this long enough to know that I can't make her love me like I want to be loved. I'm now working at being content with all I do have. I am blessed with many things. I'm in a situation that many people on this forum would covet. I don't take that for granted. I realize some people can recover and have a better marriage than they ever had. But for some, their marriage ends in divorce, and for others, well, their marriage doesn't end but it also doesn't become satisfying to both partners. For those of us in the latter, we contnue to pray for guidance, we learn to be grateful for what we have accomplished, and we seek peace in what God has given us.

God bless you all.

SHA