posted May 29, 2000 10:36 AM            

Oh that is so true! I was thinking about how this is 5 something years after you were married, right ? And the first couple of years you didn't really notice the emotional distance and withdrawal right? Now it just seems as plain as the nose on her face?

I have been going through that with my H in the "affection" department. Don't get me wrong, he hugs me, kisses me, tells me he loves me, and we make love several times a week. But emotionally he's ankle deep where I am 20,000 leagues His way of saying "I would die if I couldn't be near you" when he comes home is "Hi hon!"

It's just not in him to be as emotional as I need him to be. But obviously 4 years ago it was plenty. So my conclusion is that it's a give and take situation: I need to accept that he cant' give me as much as I want to see in the emotional department,and work hard to see what he does show. Also, since he's aware of the need now, he will try harder to show me in more recognizeable terms how much I mean to him and go knee deep maybe

I definately think using the MB material on your own is a good idea. I completely understand where you're coming from on that. Just keep watching and see what her reactions are. You could say, just let sleeping dogs lie

Also, as Karenna said (I sure do like her!), FAITH is very important. God can heal ANY issues she currently has, and make your marriage better than it ever was. I have no idea what your faith is, but looking into the idea of pursuing some kind of faith together will bind you closer than anything you can imagine. Try to see if she's open with it. God loves marriage and hates divorce. There are a great many Christian resources out there to help marriages become closer and more fulfilling. In fact, I think Dr. Harley is at the core a Christian counselor! (I *think*)

My prayers are with you!

posted May 29, 2000 11:18 AM            

<<When we want so badly to have our EN's met, sometimes it is hard to remember that the person we married just isn't cut out to fulfilling the fantasies.

Well, I'm not sure I would characterize our gaps as fantasies on my part. I think I miss some basic emotional and physical sharing that goes on with normal couples. When I finally decide where the line is on what my W can't/won't be able to provide, I guess I'll have a fork in the road. As long as there is progress, I won't feel compelled to dwell on what I can and can't forever live without.

posted May 29, 2000 10:22 PM            

<<My point, Mike, was that if her gaps were negligable enough to get married on, you owe it to her not to beat her over the head with being an introvert, or more duty oriented than fun-loving, or less intellectual, or whatever.>>

Well, good point. Of course, people change over time. My W used to love to go out and socialize a lot more...we use to have sex more frequently, she was more affectionate, etc. A lot of the change is due to family duties, of course.

<<What would you trade in for more playful sex, say?>>

My right arm? :-)

No, I hear you. But isn't the whole MB program about changing relationship patterns, and molding your behavior to meet your spouse's ENs? It doesn't seem acceptable to just say "Well, he/she isn't much of a conversationalist (or lover, or whatever) so I'll do with out"

Anyway, today she finally read some MB stuff I printed out. One thing I did was print out the column on sexual aversion, and she was like "Heck, that isn't me". Which I guess was good to hear (Of course, the column cites a very severe case) She also didn't like one of Harley's suggested therapies (sex every night). Oh well.

But we had a good discussion about the MB stuff. She is still sort of...I don't know..reluctant or suspicious or resistant or something. Maybe I shouldn't have shown her the part with the sex every night remedy. I think she is sort of treating the whole MB thing like it is a pick up line at a bar. But she understands better where I have been coming from....She said "So I guess the deal is if you keep being real nice and doing all this stuff, one day my 'love bank' gets filled and I suddenly want to do anything I can to make you happy?"

posted May 30, 2000 10:48 AM            

quote:

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But isn't the whole MB program about changing relationship patterns, and molding your behavior to meet your spouse's ENs?

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Yes, it is. Steve H. made the point to us once that the ENs you have now may be differently prioritized than when you married. You can say that that is tough, you are not changing for anyone, but that isn't a good way to stay happily married. So, it is better for the partners to adjust to meet each other's needs as the needs change.

quote:

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But we had a good discussion about the MB stuff. She is still sort of...I don't know..reluctant or suspicious or resistant or
something.

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Most of us are a bit resistant to anything that suggests we need to change. But, it is great that you are discussing it and she seems open to trying. I bet she'll get increasingly more accepting of MB as she tries it out more.

Hang in there--

posted May 30, 2000 11:18 AM            

My H thought the MB stuff was kind of "corny" too. I didn't show him the material but was explaining how the "falling in love" process is usually due to someone fulfilling a fundamental set of ENs we each have. And that usually the H's top five are the W's bottom five. He listened, but that's all.

I think, especially when the "controlling" spouse brings these issues up, they are not given much consideration because it is consistent with our pattern of saying "I'm right, look at all these things that prove I'm right." So my approach was to use the MB concepts I was explaining to show him how I've been WRONG. He wasn't responsive but with him that does not mean unreceptive.

Even though we're still headed for a D by his choice at this point in time, I'm still practicing these principles. He isn't ready to consider staying, so I can't force MB on him. Sounds like your W is ready to at least take a peek. Maybe you should consider leaving the web address out so she can log in while you are away.

Print out some of the material that applies to YOU and highlight the things you intent to work on. Then just leave it by your bed or let her see you reading it then leave it out for her to look at when you leave the house. It all in all isn't very subtle, but it isn't a push either. Maybe curiosity will get the better of her?

None of us like to admit fault in action or behavior. Kathi seems to have hit the nail: none of us are receptive to something that says we have to change. UNLESS... we WANT that change. And don't we usually want the change when it is something WE have discovered about our SELF?? See what I mean? Let her investigate and make realizations about herself.

Sounds like you are both making progress - that is a major hurdle in the right direction. Keep hope, don't get so excited by the positive that you push too hard, though. (I'm so guilty of that).

I'll be thinking of you, keep us posted.

posted May 30, 2000 12:41 PM            

Interestingly, 4 out of our 5 were the same, except that she had financial commitment and I had domestic support, which is not surprising, since I work and she doesn't anymore. So maybe that means we are pretty well-matched.

I sort of had to look at her responses sideways, though, because I suspected that she was answering all this with a mind toward me reading it, and being careful.

I purposely made the beginning of the MB process very focused on my faults. As I said, that got old quick, particularly when my EN questionaire sat unread by her bedside for a week. Then she basically was insulted at what she perceived as being told she was a "bad wife".

Eventually, we got by that, but she is very slow to move.

posted May 30, 2000 01:03 PM            

quote:

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Interestingly, 4 out of our 5 were the same, except that she had financial commitment and I had domestic support, which is not surprising, since I work and she doesn't anymore. So maybe that means we are pretty well-matched.

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A very common misperception around here is that you *should* have your EN's similar to your spouse. It's completely irrelevant---it's not like you're going to Wal-Mart and stocking up on the Econo-size "FAMILY COMMITTMENT in a drum", and you'll save a few bucks in the process.

What is critical is that you must know what your spouses Emotional Needs are, and how they would like them filled. And then you must go about filling them in a "professional" manner. Which builds romantic love as you go. And don't forget, just because this year's top EN's are X, Y and Z---it doesn't mean that next year's won't be A, B and Z. Needs change, and it's important to realize this and adjust for it accordingly. And finally---don't wait until your spouse TELLS you that their needs are changing---be proactive and figure it out for yourself.

posted May 30, 2000 01:05 PM            

She is subconciously enjoying the time control at the moment. Lots of times that happens when in doubt about the future.

My W wants everything now, except when she has to MAKE a decision. Then it is wait and see, and maybe the problem will magically go away, you give up, you make her go away which will satisfy the same desire,but take no direct responsibility for it.

Think up differnt approaches. I do , the direct, the indirect, the long way, the shortcut, humorus, stern way, etc.

thl

posted May 30, 2000 01:21 PM            

Even when you're being serious you ALWAYS make me laugh.

I'll be ok. Got the anti-deps two weeks ago and haven't got the nerve up to take them. I think I'm doing OK all things considered. Thanks for asking.

posted May 30, 2000 01:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by K:
A very common misperception around here is that you *should* have your EN's similar to your spouse.

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Well.....I'm alwyas a little leery about how much weight to put on a questionaire like that. I wonder how much it would change depending upon moodor whatever. And I suspect that the ENs that make the "Top 5" are generally the ones that come to the top of the mind because they aren't being met.

That said, I took some comfort in us having similar EN priorities since it makes it easy to prioritize making each other happy in some cases, at least. Like, doing a family thing together fills a top EN for both of us, or conversation, whatever.

Two birds with one stone. Make sense?

posted May 30, 2000 01:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
She is subconsciously enjoying the time control at the moment

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Yeah. We had a fairly productive little negotiation about sex frequency last night, but you could tell she was reluctant to move off the current method, which is whenever SHE feels like it. I said to her "How would you feel if the opposite was the situation? (i.e.: sex whenever I wanted it). She said, "Sore."