posted May 10, 2000 01:32 PM            

Married 14 years. Wife sweet, quiet, introverted, pretty. I'm outgoing. Four kids 2-10 years. I make a substantial living, money is not an issue. Also able to be around a lot.

Sex life has always been very active... almost every night for first 5 years together...wife asked for a downshift, went to 3 times a week...often initiated by her, but like a check-off item before sleep. A few years ago we had a rift with me complaining that she was putting up emotional walls, sex was mechanical, her complaining that sex was a chore. She always had er..physical completion, but seemed to prefer sleep to lovemaking or even affection. She grew less and less affectionate in non-sexual ways.

A few weeks back I wrote a long letter to her, explaining that I wanted us to be closer, that I needed that, that she seemed to be closing her heart to me. It was a positive letter, a love letter. When we discussed it, she shocked me by saying that, because of the difference in our personalities, she had become convinced that we would eventually separate.

I was stunned. Crushed.

I went to a marriage counselor, talked things out, went back to her, more coolness, made some statements that led me to believe she may be on the way to sexual aversion, as defined on this site. Again, I was crushed.

We took the emotional needs test. Basically, my needs were being fulfilled except for affection and sexual fulfillment. According to her answers, she was perfectly happy, I was the perfect husband. So, that didn't get us anywhere.

She is painfully unhappy discussing our relationship....I get excuses and resistance, then bursts of harsh reality that floor me. She had a rough childhood, and definitely has communication and self-esteem issues. She realizes this. She doesn't have many friends, and is a very private person. One of her main fears/complaints is that I force her into fancy social situations where she feels embarrassed and inadequate.

I love her with all my heart and can't imagine being without her. Last night, we were supposed to talk and instead she wanted to make love, and floored me with probably the most passionate session we have ever had. I think the dog even came.

Sorry.

Anyway, we have negotiated some problems out as to social schedule and sex life. So I feel we are back on track. In general, we seem to be in a pattern where her (relative)lack of interest in affection and sex makes me vigorously seek it, smothering her and making her withdraw, feeding the pattern.

I fear we will slip back into this pattern. In fact, she keeps expressing a desire to get back to "normal". Normal sucked. I want to make progress.

posted May 10, 2000 03:10 PM            

Excuse me.... I'm still laughing about the dog.... just a minute or two....hee hee hee..

OK... First, let me say that compared to many of us here you are in pretty good shape. Take comfort from that.

I think with a little help from a good counselor you two can work this out. There apparently are some underlying issues at work. Perhaps if you get right on it you can avoid the troubles associated with infidelity that many here have experienced.

I make this point because both of you may be vulnerable if emotional needs go unmet or if poor communication tactics are used in dealing with issues. Get help. Good luck.

Say hi to the dog. hee hee....

posted May 10, 2000 03:40 PM            

Thanks. I feel that vulerability. Frankly, even though I've been to a counselor, I am a little bit leery about her going. I am afraid, I guess, of what will happen when all her pent up feelings tumble out, ranging from her childhood to our alienation. I read how sometimes counseling leads to breakups, rather than prevents them. I guess it is selfish or fearful on my part, but I would rather keep the dynamic between the two of us where I can control it to a degree.

posted May 10, 2000 04:38 PM            

I think you are fooling yourself. If there are problems then NOT airing them and dealing with them constructively will only delay the inevitable. And by then too much damage may occur to recover from it.

As far as counseling leading to breakups- either that is because of a really bad counselor, or the couple waited too long and let the problems fester.

It is kind of like ignoring a toothache because you are afraid of going to the dentist. It ain't going away. It will have to be dealt with eventually, but by then the solution may be even more painful and involve the gums, tooth loss, etc.

It will not get better if you ignore it. It will only get worse. My advice is to have courage and face up to it now, while the relationship is still relatively stable, before resentment starts building up.

posted May 10, 2000 05:08 PM            

I'm not advocating ignoring anything. I'm sorry if I communicated that somehow. I'm trying to decide if my wife, an intensely private and not particularly enlightened person in these matters, would benefit from formal counseling or whether I would risk driving her into a shell and shutting off the new and promising but tentative communication completely. She has expressed concern about the "stigma" of counseling, and asked that we work things out ourselves if possible.

The other path would be to have me "mentor" the process for us, using tools (reading material, exercises, etc) provided by my counselor. He is on board with that approach, and, based on the last few days, it has shown results.

The other factor is that we have houseguests for the next week or two, and I'm trying to keep things stable.

I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that my wife is someone who feels that you either get along happily or you split. That it should be easy and intuitive. Of course, it often is for the honeymoon period. But then kids and houses and jobs and pets all come long...

Damn, this life thing is complicated.

posted May 10, 2000 05:32 PM            

As long as you are making progress using Marriage Builders principles keep going in that direction. Based on what you have said about your wife I would suspect that your wife feels somewhat emotionally disconnected from you. She may not even know what she is missing right now, that would explain why your EN questionnaire did not help. It’s very important to listen to her right now. Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

If you follow The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage then the threat of you both slipping back into a negative pattern would be eliminated.

Mike, in your case I think it’s safe to say “What’s good for the goose is good for the pooch”

posted May 10, 2000 05:49 PM            

Marriage is hard enough with two healthy people. Not that I am saying that your wife is sick, but we can all use a little help at times.

There is a risk finding a counselor that she will feel comfortable with. Skills are important, but the research shows that the most important quality in a therapist is the the client likes and feels a connection with them. Look for this. Also, some of the research shows that short-term is just as valuable as long-term therapy. Maybe she would feel more comfortable with a short-term (6 sessions is the usual) working on a specific issue.

posted May 10, 2000 06:51 PM            

Certainly it is your call. It just seems unlikely that one member of the couple in counceling can act as an objective go-between. If I were you, I wouldn't want to put myself in that position anyway. IMO, an objective third party needs to guide both of you, even if it is in separate sessions.

But you know your situation better than we do.

posted May 10, 2000 10:16 PM            

She is definitely feeling emotionally disconnected. During this process, we have been saying "ILY" to each other a lot, as per the affection exercises in one of the columns. But, in all honesty, I don't believe her. Maybe that is poor communication skills on her part. But I have a feeling that if she was shot full of truth serum she might say she was tired of our marriage, didn't love me, and wanted to move on.

In fact, she has said as much in the initial Big Conversation a few weeks back, although couched in nicer terms.

But you are right in one way. I sort of wonder sometimes if she knows how to love, or at least how to love in a mature relationship way, not a teenage / honeymoon / sex / infatuation way. The emotional challenges I am putting on her, to draw her out of her shell, almost seem to be making her withdraw more.

posted May 10, 2000 10:23 PM            

Well, when I pushed the issue, she did say that she would go to counseling (if she had to), and prefered going alone initially, and said whomever I had been seeing would be fine for a counselor.

In all honesty, what I fear is her voicing some of the hard things she said to me (unsure of our future together, etc), and them gaining validation by the process of airing. I'm wondering whether my own fence-mending and vigorous love bank deposits are a safer way to go for the near term.

posted May 11, 2000 12:42 AM            

One spouse can be the lead. I have done ALL the research, changing, learning, and after more than seven years together we are finally getting things better for both of us. H would rather amputate his d... than go to a therapist.

Many books have helped. So has prayer. My faith has been miniscule, but still rewarded. I think with any kind of therapy, coaching, participation in study or other involvement on h's part change would have been (and could still be) much faster.

Sounds like you have a strong base to build on. Like you, our solid point that really helped hold us together through the hopeless times was sexual compatibility. Not perfect, but always at least tolerable, and usually more fun than not. Occasionally mindblowing.

Stick around. You will learn a lot, Mike.

Love,

Karenna

posted May 28, 2000 10:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Karenna:
Are you guys okay now?

---

Hi Karenna,

I think so. I was away for a few days, so I haven't been posting.

I was a little disappointed on my return....I had asked her to read through some MB info...she didn't. Like your hubby, huh? :-)

She claimed that I returned early, and she was going to get to it right before I returned.

I think it is interesting how many people here are plan Aing away, and have spouses that refuse to even read the program. I suspect that my wife might be thinking "Hmmm....if I read this stuff, will I have to work at this as hard as he is?"

Anyway, that aside, we are making progress. I have to accept that I will never have a wife as emotionally open as I wish, or as sexually expressive as I'd love. But I think I can make progress. I have noticed a retreat of her taker, and a lot more concern by her for my happiness and welfare.