posted May 10, 2000 10:42 PM            

My wife and I are negotiating on frequency of sex. I advocate every waking moment :-), she is at 1-2 times per week. We have been down this road before, and sometimes tried a schedule for certain evenings (e.g.: Monday, Thursday, Saturday) but the hectic pace of life meant inevitably missing time, or a bad day intruding on the schedule. And it certainly seemed unromantic compared to the halycon pre-kid days of spontaneous sex.

However, she said it helped her to know, and eliminated some of the tension if she wanted to go to sleep and expected me to want sex. I must say, she has always been very dutiful in this area, although it has perhaps taken a toll.

Anyway, the first question is, is it better to schedule or not?

The second question is, is it better to try something other than evenings? She often seems tired at nite, and wants to rush our time together in order to get to sleep. Mornings are hectic too with the kids to get out the door....I can get home during the day, but she doesn't seem too enthusiastic about that (she mentioned her hair).

Thirdly....what about...shortcuts? Rather than going the whole romping coitus rout, I would be happy with mixing in the occasional oral or manual favor as a method to bridge the gap in our sex drives. Surprisingly, she hasn't really picked up on this idea, although I have mentioned it on occasion in the past. Is this rude or selfish of me? I was only trying to get to a compromise.

posted May 11, 2000 12:31 AM            

If you and she are feeling it's her duty I wonder how much she's enjoying it? Not trying to judge, but I kind of get the impression you want her to service you.
As a woman I am much more inclined towards sex when I am feeling loved and appreciated than when I feel my husband just wants to get his rocks off.

Perhaps you wouldn't have to schedule the thing weeks in advance. I mean, maybe Tuesday before you leave for work, you could make a "date" for that evening. Lovingly suggest putting the kids to bed early and having a glass of wine (or whatever) together to set the mood. This way the anticipation can build during the day and it doesn't feel so planned.

posted May 11, 2000 01:07 AM            

Is she well-organized in most areas of her life? Does she make lists for everything? Does she see things as black and white? Does she tend to be rigid in her opinions?

Or does she tend to get sidetracked a lot? Is she more spontaneous than scheduled in her leisure time? Does she see choices and decisions in shades of gray? Is flexibility her hallmark?

If she is more of the first type than the second type, then scheduled sex is a good thing. If she is more of the second style than the first, then scheduled sex would be a major turnoff.

Sounds like you are more of the second type, but scheduling something for her sake would be a small price to pay for keeping the sex in your marriage positive. This difference in style is one of the HUGE areas of misunderstanding in all relationships. Conflict between spouses, parent and child, coworkers, boss and subordinate which involves this difference can be a real problem until you learn to understand and appreciate the other's style. Ask CommittedHusb about this.

But dates are a different matter.

Does she like gifts? Bring a flower or tiny beautifully wrapped box with a trinket to the "date" evening.

Does she prefer to hang out together just being there? Take a bath or hot tub together, or spread a blanket on a lawn and watch the clouds or stars.

Does she like it when you do special things (acts) for her? You could cook her a special meal or dessert for two after the kids are in bed.

Sounds like she isn't really into deep conversation, so hold off on the poetry composition.

Is she into compliments, praise, flattery, affectionate words and verbal encouragement? Maybe that kind of poetry would give her a buzz.

Is being touched lovingly more her thing? Bring a peacock feather, or massage oils, or offer to do her hair.

Bet you can come up with something that would really get her attention on a special night you set aside to concentrate on being together! Leave sex out of it until she can't stand not having it.

You can actually condition her to love your dates and look forward to them if you figure out which style of love expressions SHE most appreciates! Feed her EN's with all the best you can muster.

Q. 2. Time of day. Whenever you both are comfortable and not rushed. When she agrees.

Q. 3. Shortcuts. Not unless you want her to develope a severe case of sex aversion. I promise.

Have fun!

posted May 11, 2000 01:58 AM            

Ouch. Well, fair enough, I introduced the word duty. We have different sex drives, that is a given, and it isn't going to totally change, I think. We agreed long ago that we would both have to reach a middle ground...me accepting less lovemaking than I wished, her agreeing to a little more.

Perhaps this needs to be rethought. It seemed intuitive and logical and fair at the time, but maybe this should be a lowest common denominator game, with the frequency that the lower sex drive partner setting the pace? But...does that make it my "duty" to not have my emotional needs met?

posted May 11, 2000 02:15 AM            

She considers Rainman a frivolous slacker in the area of routine.

""If she is more of the first type than the second type, then scheduled sex is a good thing.""

Well, that is where we are leaning. Right now, we are working through a period here where I am letting her call the shots. But I'm sure it will fall back into a discussion of a schedule.

""You can actually condition her to love your dates and look forward to them if you figure out which style of love expressions SHE most appreciates!""

Well, we need to work on that. I've tried Jacuzzi's, sex toys, back rubs, and a midget named Marv, but she doesn't take to experimentation.

I'm kidding about Marv.

""Q. 2. Time of day. Whenever you both are comfortable and not rushed. When she agrees.""

Yeah. It is finding the time that is the problem right now.

""Q. 3. Shortcuts. Not unless you want her to develope a severe case of sex aversion. I promise.""

Right. Maybe I've been a little thoughtless there. Thank you. But, I'm curious...is it ever appropriate for a wife to just do a quickie sexual favor out of love? When you have 4 small kids, it isn't like you have buckets of time to walk in sunsplashed meadows or loll in jacuzzis together. I know the POJA calls for you to just sort of live with your unfulfilled desire until the planets align, but, over the course of a length of time equal to, say, life, that seems to equal a lot of gnawing horniness for the more sexually driven partner.

Isn't this supposed to be about fulfilling each others emotional needs and compromising where there are gaps?

posted May 11, 2000 05:40 AM            

Just a thought. The niceties....backrubs, footrubs, etc....whatever feels good. Give those a try on the nights that you DON'T expect sex (notice I didn't say don't WANT sex!! ) Just for the heck of it, just because you love her. So that she doesn't associate those acts of affection with your wanting something! With no expectations of return.

Draw her a bath once a week or so to relax after her day, put candles in the bathroom, take care of some things so that she can relax and then DON'T ask for anything more! See what happens after a few weeks.

On a regular basis. At bedtime, EVERY night, lots of non-sexual cuddling and nurturing....it may help her to anticipate the big deal a lot more and be more receptive to giving it a shot more often. Something about someone giving to you with no thought of return is amazing - could very well make the other part seem like less of a duty. Now, it'll probably take time for her to get used to it, and she may well be suspicious for a while, but she'll relax eventually. But she'll feel loved and appreciated...could help, you know?

Good luck

Lori

posted May 11, 2000 07:07 AM            

quote:

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Leave sex out of it until she can't stand not having it.

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Ooohhh! YES! Make her WANT it! I've been trying to get that point across to my H for 9 years and he still doesn't get it. (pun intended )

posted May 11, 2000 07:26 AM            

quote:

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She considers Rainman a frivolous slacker in the area of routine.

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Too funny!

Scheduled sex? With 4 kids and all the busy-ness that running a household entails, YES...may not seem romantic, but it can be.

POJA doesn't really call for waiting til the planets align, you know. It calls for finding a middle ground that you can both cheerfully live with. If you haven't read His Needs/Her Needs, the chapter on sex is good...

Quickies...great if the wife does in a spirit of love (well, lust is better)...not if done in a spirit of obligation.

You ask a lot of questions...makes me wonder if you have asked these of your wife? Sounds like you two are trying to work with each other...so, if you have not, maybe you could do so...lovingly, of course.

Good luck--

Kathi

posted May 11, 2000 08:24 AM            

Believe me, for years I have been the affectionate one. And you are right, she saw it only as a overture to sex, and withdrew. She said she felt smothered. She is still suspicious, but we are being more affectionate in our sleeping time, and I think it is breaking her down, slowly. She is reciprocating and even initiating minor acts of cuddling and affection at night as we sleep.

posted May 11, 2000 08:32 AM            

We've talked about all of the three areas I was questioning above. I think I included her reaction/comments to them.

She is clearly uncomfortable discussing this sort of thing, though. If I raise the topic, her body language shows it, and she will make excuses like she is tired or needs to do something for the kids. It takes a lot of patience on my part...I feel like I am the only one that cares about the relationship. I think that part of this is that she is an intensely private person, part of it is that she doesn't want to be forced to say things that will hurt me, and part of it is that she doesn't want to follow this psychological thread to wherever it leads into her past.

posted May 11, 2000 09:04 AM            

We have very busy lives ourselves...and 3 kids at home. The need seems to be more intense for me than her. I finally got a point where I suggested the "schedule" bit...but you know what really got me on that? I don't have to "schedule" or "program" romantic feelings for her...they use to come naturally and frequently. It would be nice for her to just desire me in the same way...not because it is on her appointment book. This is very disheartening for a male/husband.

Not being desired by your own spouse can certainly make one "vulnerable" to others. May not be an "Excuse"...but it is a "reason".

posted May 11, 2000 09:20 AM            

That sentiment hits home.

I guess I have been justifying it away in my mind, thinking that having a hassled life with small kids probably makes nature throw a switch on female sexual desire.

posted May 11, 2000 09:34 AM            

I DO hear you, and sympathisize. Women do not, however, compartmentalize as well as guys do. Ya'll can have a to-do list 1,000 items long, and still switch into "let's do it" mode at the drop of a hat, right?

Many women are not like this, tho. Most need time to switch over from supermom mode to lover mode....otherwise they'll still be worrying those 1,000 things when you are trying to romance them...this is where blocking time out can help. It gives her time to get into the mindset. It's not you, it's just that women work a bit differently. Try not to take it personally.

Offering to free up a little "transition time" for her (for example "hon, if you want to take a bubble bath before bed, I'll get everyone's teeth brushed & jammies on" or whatever, also can help.

posted May 11, 2000 09:39 AM            

Fuhgeddaboutit. This would be like having a staring contest with The Sphinx.