posted May 11, 2000 01:04 PM            

Can this ever become counterproductive? Will she lose respect for me? Could she be on a little ego trip, enjoying pulling my (heart)strings with her new disinterest in sex and uncertainty about our future?

Obviously, when one is dating, the death of a relationship is to appear needy, desperate and clingy. To be a drag to be around, always mopey and cow-eyed in love.

Shouldn't the same principal apply to marriage? Or once you are committed can you stop playing mind games?

In my darkest moments, I wonder what would happen if I threw up my hands one day and just said "I've tried my absolute best and I can't make you happy. I love you too much to live like this, it is eating me up inside. Let's part ways."

Would she shrug and say ok? Or would the tables turn...or at least even out?

posted May 11, 2000 01:41 PM            

Tell her how much all her "acts of service" mean to you and the children. Tell her that you understand that she shows her love for you and the children by taking care of the home and doing all the things she does. (My H broke down and cried when I gave him that recognition for the first time two weeks ago.) Once she really understands that you fully credit her with her heartfelt service in the home, she may be willing to have ... well, not a "maid" but window washers? Kitchen detailers? Bathroom polishers? Laundry services? Carpet cleaners? A once a week impersonal service is not a maid, servant or uppity. She just may feel like it is sort of like you going to a prostitute for something she OUGHT to provide, and if she can't, she is less a wife and mom. Be very sensitive. Start slowly.

Remember that her ENs are family commitment and domestic support. Helping out as a dad isn't being a doormat, sir.

Read everything you can find on Plan A. Plan A as a lifestyle is not just for surviving an affair. Please note that it does involve expressing your feelings, so you should never feel like a doormat.

You do not have to Do anything you are uncomfortable doing, or accept unacceptable behavior. You just have to define your limits in a respectful, non-angry, non-demeaning and non-selfish ways.

Soon, sooner than you think, but not instantly, she will be very open to hearing more about your ENs.

posted May 11, 2000 01:41 PM            

Bonnie, I've been pouring my heart out for weeks, in tears more than once. The relative lack of result is what starts to make me wonder if it is the right tactic, or worth the effort...

posted May 11, 2000 02:02 PM            

Good point. I will do this.

<<Remember that her ENs are family commitment and domestic support.>>

I don't remember telling you that, but you are absolutely right. We actually both had the same top 4. Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, Family Commitment, and Honesty. (different order) Then she had Financial Support and I had Domestic Support (she doesn't work). I thought that was encouraging, we at least had similar needs.

<<Helping out as a dad isn't being a doormat, sir.>>

Of course not. I coach 3 sports, do Boy Scouts, etc. I don't mail it in.

My doormat reference came from the recent pattern of our emotional monologue, i.e.: all me and silence from her.

For instance, I wrote her this letter last week:
<excerpt>

""....We are very different people, as you say. But I think we fill each others gaps, and are stronger together as a couple and a family than we are apart. <name>, you are the only woman I have ever loved, and I have given you my heart. Read that sentence again, because I mean every word. I love you more now than ever. When my counselor asked me how often my wife says “I love you” or gives me a hug or a kiss without asking…I realized the answer was “never”. I actually cried for the first time in about 10 years.
I want us to be closer. I am willing to do whatever it takes to make this happen. If you are uncomfortable with our house, our lifestyle, my activities, my traveling, or anything else, I am willing to change to make you comfortable and secure and happy. <name>, I am 100% devoted to you. I have always tried to make you feel that and make you feel loved and secure. We seem to be in a pattern now where I feel starved for affection, and you feel smothered and get annoyed, and that makes me more lonely, etc. I suppose that this is common when you have small children, and life is hectic. Maybe we take each other for granted. But we need to make our relationship a priority.>>

etc...

Now, what would you say if your husband wrote you that letter? I got no response except "Okay, I guess we'll try". No tears or I love you. No emotional response.

<<Soon, sooner than you think, but not instantly, she will be very open to hearing more about your ENs.>>

I hope so.

Thanks again.

posted May 11, 2000 03:29 PM            

I have some questions?

Is your wife concerned with getting pregnant again?

Women with small children get an awful lot of physical contact every day. Admittedly it is a very different sort but for a very private person the sheer volume of physical contact can be overwhelming.

It sounds like your wife would benefit from individual counseling. I know you have concerns about that, but if she has childhood issues it would probably be easier to talk to one than two.

posted May 11, 2000 05:40 PM            

OK, in terms of Meyers-Briggs personality types, I strongly suspect she is ISFJ. This is the most duty oriented of all the 16 types. If she feels understood, appreciated, and valued for who she is, not who she thinks you want her to be she will gradually open up.

My mother is the same type. Very private. Very self-conscious and insecure about certain areas. Tends to stress about things she can't control but has responsibility for. Tends to take things too personally and is a little over-sensitive. Hyper-sensitive to criticism, but that is probably just her.

If your W is similar then I expect that she FEELS things very personally, and very deeply, but she isn't going to become verbally or emotionally expressive. She will show it by her actions mostly.

posted May 11, 2000 07:46 PM            

Gee, you are getting lots of good suggestions...but it may be a bit hard at this point figuring out which really fit your situation...

You and your wife seem to communicate very differently, but the good news is you DO seem to have some similar needs (hey, and sex is in the top 4 for both of you, so you are in luck ). I bet you can learn to meet each other's needs better...you obviously are willing to, and I bet she can be brought along (even if she doesn't seem too interested right now). You would be surprised how much can change in a marriage when you learn to identify what makes each person really, truly feel loved, and supply it...it has brought back the continual passion we had 18 years ago, and more imortantly the emotional closeness and "in-love" feelings...

I would second K's suggestion to try a few phone sessions with Steve Harley.