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Author	Topic: SF frequency
TruthSeeker Member	posted September 21, 2000 08:14 AM But just sitting and kissing will HELP her to get into sexual gear. Ever hear of foreplay? Foreplay is so important to women because it enables them to make a smoother transition from whatever other roles they're playing in life to the hot, sexy wife role. We can't switch roles with the flip of a switch without experiencing a great deal of stress in most cases. We have to transition into them slowly. IP: Logged
istillwannatry Member	posted September 21, 2000 08:32 AM DB-- I think I've mentioned this to you before. But you are going to have to tell her ahead fo time that you ARE NOT GOING TO have sex for a while. Maybe then she would be more open to kissing. She probably does think that the kiss will lead to sex. And obviously she isn't ready for that. For a while, don't touch her in a erotic way, or area. Be passionate, but not needy. Act as tho you are touching her body for the first time. (with the respect a man should have for a woman) Just some suggestions. Hope they can somehow help. IP: Logged
TruthSeeker Member	posted September 21, 2000 08:35 AM quote: MY WIFE DOESN'T LIKE TO KISS. Come to think of it, she doesn't like foreplay. Is that because of the idea that it will lead to sex? Would she like it if there was no expectation of sex? Perhaps if you told her "I'd really like to spend the night making out on the couch. Just making out and cuddling to feel closer to each other. No sex." And then actually just make out with no overtures of sex. You can have her set the ground rules for which places are off-limits to touch during one of these make-out sessions. Make sure you abide by those rules so that she will learn to trust that touching her is an expression of love and not just the means to an end of SF. IP: Logged
TruthSeeker Member	posted September 21, 2000 08:48 AM Here's a radical concept. Date her! Set aside time for the two of you to be alone. Make the date in advance, just like you were dating. Make sure she has adequate decompression time from all of life's obligations before the date begins so can mentally switch gears and relax. Let her choose what you do on the date, but you set everything up, including the babysitter. Ararnge it so that she doesn't have to thnk about anything else except enjoying some time alone with you. Without sex. I think in that context, she just might start to like kissing again. IP: Logged
K Member	posted September 21, 2000 08:55 AM Mike: I'm throwing back this quote from you: quote: Well, her stance now is that she is starting to really look forward to and enjoy sex again, and she is afraid of rushing it. So if you are me, what the hell do you say to that? "Yes, dear?" Well, that is what I did. So, I'm unhappy with the frequency, but I have to hope for better days. She says (my favorite conversational subject) that she is afraid of falling back into where she was a few years back where she "dreaded" sex. If I'm looking at these statements, I think you should be running for champagne to open, not going to puke. The POJA STATES: 1. Mutually enthusiastic solutions that are win-win 2. It prevents "lose" situations that are consessions based on "actions" that build up resentment. Simply stated, your situation is: 1. You want sex 4X a week Your wife has said: 1. She used to dread sex with you 2. Now she's beginning to look forward to it 3. 2X a week is something she's CURRENTLY comfortable with 4. She doesn't want to rush into 4X (but hasn't apparently dismissed it out of hand. If you want to get to your very simple goal of sex 4X/week, I think you don't want to have your wife dreading sex. You're making some significant progress on this front, in a pretty damn short time. Why so down? These plans aren't "forever". Get to a comfort level, see how it suits the both of you. She might end up at wanting sex 4X/week, but you want it 7X/week. You'll get to negotiate. Or SHE might want it 7X/week, and you'll only want it 3X (and don't laugh---it is very possible). You've really got to reign in your "taker" here, and work more on focusing on meeting your wife's important emotional needs (I still think you're probably a bit off target). But I look at the progress and think you're doing great---you really should step back out of this, without emotion, and look and see how you feel the progress has been. IP: Logged
istillwannatry Member	posted September 21, 2000 09:14 AM oooppps--- I think you are getting Mike and DB confused. (is is SO hard to keep everything straight on this board!) Hmmm-but maybe you aren't---sorry, I was thinking you were replying to DB last post. But DB-- I know, but if she just KNEW that it wasn't leading to sex.... and you say that it would be ok---if you didn't have kids, if the house was picked up-----is she the one worried about the house? And the dating suggestion IS an excellent idea. I hope you keep that up, consistency is important. and she won't change overnight. SPeaking of overnight, maybe you guys could do that. A long weekend, so there is more than one night. The first don't even attempt to make love---the next maybe so. [This message has been edited by istillwannatry (edited September 21, 2000).] IP: Logged
TruthSeeker Member	posted September 21, 2000 09:24 AM quote: But, how dare I expect that after hours of such closeness that I may want to make love! I understand her on this. Having sex after all that closenes invalidates the closeness as having anything to do with your love for her. She interprets it as "you only did all those nice things so you could have sex." Womene are progarmmed from day one to believe that men only want sex and that if that's what they want, they're not really interest in you. This is ingrained in us and it's difficult to unlearn it when it is appropriate to do so. The only way to do that is to show her that all that closeness really IS an expression of love for her. That it wasn't a manipulation to get sex. So go on these dates with the attitude that you simply want to show her that she is loved and enjoy spending time with her without it leading to sex at the end. She needs to know that who she is is important to you and not just for a roll in the hay. This has to happen repeatedly and consistently in order for her to to begin to trust it. I bet that those times that she was interested in sex after the date were times when she really felt loved rather than manipulated. IP: Logged
istillwannatry Member	posted September 21, 2000 09:29 AM you've got a ggod point there TS. Geez, we women are complicated aren't we. IP: Logged
TruthSeeker Member	posted September 21, 2000 09:51 AM the reason that women have the attitude they do about men wanting sex comes from self-protection mechanisms that were taught to us growing up. They were needed then to avoid being used by horny teenage boys for sex and to avoid unwanted pregnancies and STDS. The problem is, that conditioning doesn't always go away the way it should after marriage. Any hint of something that looks like "oh, he just wants sex" causes that defense mechanism to kick in. We can't combat that defense mechanism unless we feel loved. quote: She decided it was important to me and in the process had a blast with it herself. Perhaps the piece you are missing is that maybe on that day she felt loved enough? IP: Logged
istillwannatry Member	posted September 21, 2000 10:00 AM definately we can decide.... but all the components must be in place. But we can only decide as TS said----when we have felt loved enough. or in my case --- when I am just to darn ready and I know he'll not inititate (probably concurrent with ovulation...) IP: Logged
Harlequin99 Member	posted September 21, 2000 10:03 AM DB, You say that you fill her ENs - but you never mention LBs. Did you fill out that questionaire? There's also a very good worksheet series in Give and Take that leads you through LB removal. H IP: Logged
Harmonious Melody Member	posted September 21, 2000 10:27 AM I would second what K has said. I think there is encouragement here to be found and his points are good. <posted by MikeC2> "What I have been thinking about lately is that my W has been in withdrawal for soooo long, I wonder if she can recover? I mean, I don't know how you could measure the day she went in or whatever, but it has been many, many years....maybe more than ten. Or maybe it was sort of a quasi-withdrawal, because she had emotional walls up about her feelings, but was actually trying to meet most of my needs, out of a sense of duty, I guess." (I am not that savy on this site yet where I knew the best way to copy your post.) Anyhow. Some more thoughts... I do think your wife can recover and your marriage can be restored in the SF area and here are some reasons why. You indicated your fear of your wife being sooo long in withdrawl. Let me point out some things that might be Very good in this. 1. Your wife has moved (by being truthful). She is being honest with you. Honesty or truthfulness is one of the 4 Rules of a Successful Marriage that Harley talks about and it is essential to success I believe (Harley link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3903_rules.html ). Truthfullness is essential to the intimacy your looking for with your wife and she is expressing herself. I'm not saying try to fight with her (you know this), but when you see her in conflict try to consider this a good thing (a baby step away from withdrawl toward conflict). Dealing with truth is conflict and conflict can lead to intimacy if we can learn to use and weild the tools to work through it. I wouldn't say she's moved into conflict completely, but she seems to be moving out of withdrawl "in small baby steps". This is something to celebrate as it is a move that you wish. It serves your purposes. Your wife is telling the truth now. It doesn't mean she's never told you the truth, but it means she wasn't communicating full truthfulness to you. She has begun the process of being honest with you and you need to as K has stated to others: "to get openness and honesty, you have to encourage it...If they don't trust your ability to handle honesty, you have to fine tune your behaviors to encourage trust." Your intent in making love to her is to connect with her and she wasn't telling you that it wasn't connecting. This doesn't mean you should go home and do your homework by practicing on lovemaking (nice thought huh? , but it means there is a deeper element within her that is associated in lovemaking that has led to her withdrawl. You've done a good job picking Harley if she feels safe talking to him about your marriage. She needs to feel safe talking to you about it too. What you need to keep in check is how you hear what she says. Easier said than done, I know. 2. Mike you are learning about your relationship with your wife. You are understanding how long (maybe 10 yrs in some ways?)there have been some problems from which she's been in a state of withdrawl and you're learning that it didn't happen overnight--thus unfortunately recovery isn't going to happen over night either and will probably take maybe more than you've planned for. You are learning things you didn't know about the relationship as well as skills. 3. Your wife loves you Mike. I want to say something else too. Speaking of your wife and her withdrawl you said, "but was actually trying to meet most of my needs, out of a sense of duty, I guess." I doubt she was doing all that out of a sense of duty. I bet she did it out of love for you Mike and it's just that out of her giving to your lovebank while she was not receiving into her lovebank that her lovebank became drained. You said before you were realizing that the deposits you've been trying to make (for so long) weren't reaching her true needs. It's important to remind yourself that she loves you and to focus upon this newfound information just like you have The fact is that you've learned a lot Mike and you are continuing to learn a lot (as we all are here) about yourself (or ourselves), your wife, and marriage. IP: Logged
ecurb1 Member	posted September 21, 2000 10:35 AM I am amazed but this thread has turned even more depressing since my other post. Now it appears that not only is a man's sex drive not important, but it is an actual negative. However, this appears to only be the case if a man is a good man who actually marries a woman he loves, does his best to meet her needs, and remains faithful even though he knows he will not get his most important need met because if he meets her needs and hopes to get his own met, she will not because that would discount in her mind what he did to meet her needs. If, on the other hand, he doesn't meet her needs, she sees no reason to even try to meet his (Both cases, my W at different times). It seems that the only women who post here and also enjoy sex in marriage also have wayward or at least detached husbands. So if I am to beleive all this, the only way for a man who needs SF to get that need met is outside of the marriage relationship. This topic is draining my LB like crazy. I've got to leave. IP: Logged
Mike C2 Member	posted September 21, 2000 10:52 AM quote: Originally posted by Harmonious Melody: I would second what K has said. I think there is encouragement here to be found and his points are good.The fact is that you've learned a lot Mike and you are continuing to learn a lot (as we all are here) about yourself (or ourselves), your wife, and marriage. That qwas an excellent post, HM. Thank you. You make some good points. I started a new thread answering the message that you refered to by K with some new thoughts. The signal to noise ratio here was getting kind of high. I'd appreciate your input there. You have been very helpful. IP: Logged
istillwannatry Member	posted September 21, 2000 11:04 AM DB-- wow, really ovulation has nothing to do with her sex drive?? It has a big impact on mine? Does she perhaps hasve a physical problem? AND I UNDERSTAND!!! H and I have never has a lot of sex. (I think ONCE we did it twice in one day---and RARELY EVER HAVE had it two days in a row---and I'm sure those times, early in our relationship it was me doing the initiating and I just thought he would want to, and then he was probably not wanting to tell me that he wasn't interested and so forth) You know, maybe you have discussed it before. I seem to remember that your wife won't do counseling . Will she go and tallk to her ob/gyn about her sex drive? Also, I think the LB idea is great. You think you may know her LB, but maybe she can only vocalize aobut the easy one (launddry) and not tell you about the more emotional one??? Just a thought IP: Logged

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